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Thread: Thoughts on defunding police forces?

  1. #121
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    You won the internet Doug, heres your e-cookie.

    Now go sit down.








  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by going_home View Post
    Links wont matter but here you go :

    https://1010wcsi.com/fox-news/nyc-po...%20this%20week.
    Thanks for the help.

    After reading the article, however, I think my point still stands. The increase in crime in this case seems to be fueled by other causes, (especially covid-19 and the resulting unemployment and quarantine issues), not any efforts to defund the police.

    As a contrast, I would invite you again to read about what happened in Camden, NJ. Their police department wasn't entirely defunded, but funds were reduced drastically. The entire force was disbanded and forced to reapply for their old jobs. Lots of changes were made, and those changes have made the city better.

    I will stress better, not perfect. As plenty of other articles have pointed out, Camden is still nowhere close to being a model US city. But they are improving, and it's tough to make the argument that those improvements would have still happened if they kept the old system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tunaman View Post
    Before the plandemic, we DID have the best economy, and the lowest unemployment EVER.
    Yeah, I'm with Nobody on this. "Best" is a highly subjective term.

    There have been times in US history when the GPD was growing faster (2014). There have also been times when unemployment was actually lower (1969).

    Now, I'm not saying that Trump is a horrible president when it comes to the economy. Although... well, I do wonder how much of the growth is happening because of the upward trend that he inherited from Obama. I wonder if things would have been even better with Hilary. I really worry that this growth is only happening because he's been slashing so many regulations in so many industries. When companies don't have to worry so much about polluting the planet, of course they can pocket more of their profits.

    Also, and I admit this is totally anecdotal, but I myself haven't personally seen any of that growth. Neither has anyone I personally know. Despite everyone on Fox news telling me how great the economy is doing, my taxes have gone up enough that I've actually taken home less pay over the last two years. Not much less, but still. Less! So forgive me if I don't really believe that our current economy was "the best ever!" before covid-19. The truth is far more complicated than that.

    And besides, even if Trump was the greatest president ever for the economy, I don't get how that relates to the conversation we were having about defunding the police. Even if Trump is right about the economy, that doesn't mean that he's also right about immigration or BLM or trade or climate change or a host of other issues. He can be right about some things and wrong about others.

    So yeah, maybe Trump has been good for the economy. But that doesn't mean he's right about police brutality, and it certainly doesn't mean that the criminal justice system is fine the way it is. For those issues, we really should listen to the experts and especially to the people who have been victimized by the cops.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tunaman View Post
    Before the plandemic...
    Totally missed this before. Did you mean to write this, or is it a typo?
    Last edited by rawbutter; 06-28-2020 at 03:04 PM.

  3. #123
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    not a typo
    Email me for low prices on ALL AGD Products and more. tunaman5@verizon.net
    Tunamart

  4. #124
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    Let me get this straight, so a disease, virus pandemic was a planned release from china(or was it the governemnt, secret labs or leftover Obama & leftwing rsdicals? I can't keep it straight) that has indiscriminately killed 100s of throusands world wide, only made possible because of China's apparent push to take over the global market(not like 70% of all the world's manufacturing is not done there now) to not only kill americans, but to destabilize the world so that China can move in with their Marxist regime to become world leaders & to embarrass the current sitting president who is the only true & noble hero available to fight against these vile machinations of a future foe?

    And George Floyd was a patsy, paid off by the Democrats to become a martyr, to pin apparent misgivings of the current administration, so that the next Democrat to take the office, can literally tear up the constitution, turn in all the guns, destroy life, liberty & the pursuit of happiness, through the police overreacting to a crime to only do a crime themselves.

    And with that, i will be making and selling tin foil hats with AGD logos, because quality keeps the satellites from following you....

  5. #125
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    John Loguzzo had it right.
    Last edited by Tunaman; 07-01-2020 at 04:37 PM.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    Let me get this straight, so a disease, virus pandemic was a planned release from china(or was it the governemnt, secret labs or leftover Obama & leftwing rsdicals? I can't keep it straight) that has indiscriminately killed 100s of throusands world wide, only made possible because of China's apparent push to take over the global market(not like 70% of all the world's manufacturing is not done there now) to not only kill americans, but to destabilize the world so that China can move in with their Marxist regime to become world leaders & to embarrass the current sitting president who is the only true & noble hero available to fight against these vile machinations of a future foe?

    And George Floyd was a patsy, paid off by the Democrats to become a martyr, to pin apparent misgivings of the current administration, so that the next Democrat to take the office, can literally tear up the constitution, turn in all the guns, destroy life, liberty & the pursuit of happiness, through the police overreacting to a crime to only do a crime themselves.

    And with that, i will be making and selling tin foil hats with AGD logos, because quality keeps the satellites from following you....
    Tell me about it.

    I can understand why someone would believe Plandemic when it first came out. It made a compelling argument. Had some interesting connections. And the video was snazzy. But over the following weeks and months, hundreds of journalists and scientists and a whole bunch of other experts have literally written thousands of articles for reliable news sources to debunk the video. So what seemed plausible at first has now been thoroughly discredited. Even Fox News isn't defending it anymore. (They haven't written their own debunking article, but they're not fighting for it either. They know it's a losing battle.)

    And honestly, this is the way things are supposed to work. People suggest ideas based on their own point of view. Other people respond with their own viewpoint. Facts get double-checked. Science is refined. Ideology is tested. Opinions change and "update" with the time. That's why it's always best to wait a while and read everything that comes about about a new idea before making up your mind.

    It's not just Plandemic either. That's just a microcosm of the greater American experiment. Even paintball works the same way. Take the EMEK, for example. As cool as it looked, most people didn't go out and pre-order the thing. They didn't trust PE to be 100% honest about their own product. They waited until they saw some reviews first. They asked the experts how well it worked. How reliable it was. The EMEK has only been a great success because all that peer-review stuff confirmed that it was worth the money.

    This whole defunding the police movement is the same kind of thing. When the police first got started, everyone thought they were doing things the right way. We have tons of stories and movies glorifying the job. But as time goes on, victims of the police start sharing their story. Our beliefs are challenged. We start to see flaws in the system, and we start to explore different ideas about how to fix those flaws. And defunding the police is one of those ideas.

    And I'll say this again, since I don't think I've said it for a few pages now, and maybe it's been forgotten...I don't agree with the idea of 100% defunding the police. But I do think the criminal justice system needs serious reform, and I think that some of the money spent on police could be better spent elsewhere (social programs, affordable housing, etc.).

    Now, how much money should be diverted? 10%? 50%? I don't know yet. Where should the money go? I'm not sure about that either. But I think we should try some other things in a bunch of different cities, give it some time to sink in, and then check back in five or ten years to see if things are getting better. If one thing works better than something else, then great. Let's do that instead. And if nothing works better, then fine. Go back to the way it was or try something else.

    And by the way....If you haven't done so yet, watch 13th on Netflix. (I only just watched it myself a few days ago, and I learned a lot.) Educate yourself about "redlining" and the "prison industrial complex." Learn about the slavery loopholes that have been hiding in our laws for over 100 years. If you do all that and learn about how hard it has been for minorities in this country, then you might have a better understanding of why "don't do crime" isn't the best strategy moving forward.
    Last edited by rawbutter; 06-29-2020 at 08:53 AM.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    What makes this really significant is that fact that there is a complete handgun BAN in NYC.
    So MUCH for gun control HUH fans!!!
    ......You know you want one!!

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loguzzzzzz View Post
    What makes this really significant is that fact that there is a complete handgun BAN in NYC.
    So MUCH for gun control HUH fans!!!
    It is way worse that that John. I live here. Scott lives here. DeBlasio and Coumo are idiots. This place is going to hell fast. Keep electing these Democrats and you get this.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    Let me get this straight, so a disease, virus pandemic was a planned release from china(or was it the governemnt, secret labs or leftover Obama & leftwing rsdicals? I can't keep it straight) that has indiscriminately killed 100s of throusands world wide, only made possible because of China's apparent push to take over the global market(not like 70% of all the world's manufacturing is not done there now) to not only kill americans, but to destabilize the world so that China can move in with their Marxist regime to become world leaders & to embarrass the current sitting president who is the only true & noble hero available to fight against these vile machinations of a future foe?

    And George Floyd was a patsy, paid off by the Democrats to become a martyr, to pin apparent misgivings of the current administration, so that the next Democrat to take the office, can literally tear up the constitution, turn in all the guns, destroy life, liberty & the pursuit of happiness, through the police overreacting to a crime to only do a crime themselves.

    And with that, i will be making and selling tin foil hats with AGD logos, because quality keeps the satellites from following you....
    120 million dead right here in the US according to Joe Biden! Cant wait to vote!

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tunaman View Post
    It is way worse that that John. I live here. Scott lives here. DeBlasio and Coumo are idiots. This place is going to hell fast. Keep electing these Democrats and you get this.
    All the "blue" Californians, New Yorkers and people from other Democrat states trying to move away from there and come to Texas better start voting Red when they get here. If they continue voting the same way as before, Texas will become the same state they just left. I welcome anyone from the Democrat states that are truly leaving that state to come here in hopes of change and better life. Texas and true born Texans like myself are proud of our history and the freedom we have in our state that we call home. So, Tunaman, BigEvil, Luke and whoever else, come on over
    JB
    Aggie Class of '09

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbtamu1011 View Post
    All the "blue" Californians, New Yorkers and people from other Democrat states trying to move away from there and come to Texas better start voting Red when they get here. If they continue voting the same way as before, Texas will become the same state they just left. I welcome anyone from the Democrat states that are truly leaving that state to come here in hopes of change and better life. Texas and true born Texans like myself are proud of our history and the freedom we have in our state that we call home. So, Tunaman, BigEvil, Luke and whoever else, come on over
    But they dont. They move to a real state, then vote for the same garbage that caused them to move in the first place. There ought to be a law against it.

  12. #132
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    "I'm going to beat Joe Biden"










  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by going_home View Post
    "I'm going to beat Joe Biden"









    That's bout right hahaha

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  14. #134
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    After you've had a couple of brain surgeries, and possibly a mild stroke, maybe it is time to hang it up Joe...47 years is plenty for us. Retire gracefully before you make an ass out out yourself....again.

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    Career politicians are what's wrong with our government. They aren't sharp, they are feeble and they are sucking up the taxpayer money to fund their healthcare cause they need it big time. They've lost their touch with reality. Term limits or max age limit should be in place for representatives. Some are just not capable at an elderly age. I think when someone can get Medicaid at 65, that's when they need to retire.

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  16. #136
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    If they are too young, then they have no experience or are too naive to handle the job. If they are to old, they are seen as senile, or dementia riddled, and can no longer handle the stresses of the job. If they are a career politician, they are seen as too entrenched into the system, disconnected from the populace to really represent the common man. The outsider, new to politics, has no clue to what the job entails, nor how to handle the situation, as the presidency is unlike every other job.

    There is no right answer here. There is never a correct answer. The party chooses, as a figurehead who literally has the money to float a campaign, to get the nomination, as long as the party wants it.

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tunaman View Post
    After you've had a couple of brain surgeries, and possibly a mild stroke, maybe it is time to hang it up Joe...47 years is plenty for us. Retire gracefully before you make an ass out out yourself....again.
    So anyone over 60 is incapable of handling a job? Or is it 70?

    Careful with your answers

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    So anyone over 60 is incapable of handling a job? Or is it 70?

    Careful with your answers
    Anyone under a bridge is......


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    Yeah, I'm not sure that poking fun at Biden's age is effective. He's only 3 years older than Trump. The Daily Show actually did a pretty clever thing recently. They realized that Fox News was complaining a lot about Biden and saying he was unfit to be president for various reasons. Then they juxtaposed each of those complains with a clip from Trump to point out the double-standard. So if you think Biden is unfit for these reasons, that should really rule out Trump too. At least Biden has some significant political experience to go along with his age.

    As for term limits, well, we do have term limits. They're called elections. If politicians don't do the kind of job that constituents want, they're voted out. Besides, if you impose term limits, the right would lose McConnell.


    Oh....and for the record, Biden was not my top pick either. In fact he was pretty close to the bottom. But I don't think I can't bring myself to vote Republican any more, not after the Impeachment trial. I've always considered myself pretty moderate, having voted for both Republicans and Democrats for all levels of office in the past. And I could understand why Trump was elected in the first place. Despite being a terrible person, he was the Republican candidate, so the party loyalists are obviously going to vote for him. But the Impeachment....that was our chance to get rid of him. The GOP could have made a great statement about their morality and integrity, and then they would have gotten Pence as president. Seems like a win-win to me. But instead, the party of "law and order" ignored the facts and proved that they only care about their own self-interest. So no, I can't vote to keep any Republicans (except Romney, of course). If we get some new blood, maybe. I still believe in a lot of Republican values. But I can't trust anyone who voted to acquit Trump.

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  21. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by rawbutter View Post
    Yeah, I'm not sure that poking fun at Biden's age is effective.
    I don't think anyone is against Biden because of his age.

    It's the extremely obvious early onset Alzheimer's that makes him a "no can do" choice.

    And that's not even mentioning the illegal string pulling for his son.

    Just for the record I'm a registered NPA, no party affiliation.

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  23. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tunaman View Post
    But they dont. They move to a real state, then vote for the same garbage that caused them to move in the first place. There ought to be a law against it.
    AGREED! AND is really pisses me off

  24. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by rawbutter View Post
    Yeah, I'm not sure that poking fun at Biden's age is effective. He's only 3 years older than Trump. The Daily Show actually did a pretty clever thing recently. They realized that Fox News was complaining a lot about Biden and saying he was unfit to be president for various reasons. Then they juxtaposed each of those complains with a clip from Trump to point out the double-standard. So if you think Biden is unfit for these reasons, that should really rule out Trump too. At least Biden has some significant political experience to go along with his age.

    As for term limits, well, we do have term limits. They're called elections. If politicians don't do the kind of job that constituents want, they're voted out. Besides, if you impose term limits, the right would lose McConnell.


    Oh....and for the record, Biden was not my top pick either. In fact he was pretty close to the bottom. But I don't think I can't bring myself to vote Republican any more, not after the Impeachment trial. I've always considered myself pretty moderate, having voted for both Republicans and Democrats for all levels of office in the past. And I could understand why Trump was elected in the first place. Despite being a terrible person, he was the Republican candidate, so the party loyalists are obviously going to vote for him. But the Impeachment....that was our chance to get rid of him. The GOP could have made a great statement about their morality and integrity, and then they would have gotten Pence as president. Seems like a win-win to me. But instead, the party of "law and order" ignored the facts and proved that they only care about their own self-interest. So no, I can't vote to keep any Republicans (except Romney, of course). If we get some new blood, maybe. I still believe in a lot of Republican values. But I can't trust anyone who voted to acquit Trump.
    I really can't believe that you are citing the "Impeachment". That was a complete farce. It you really believe that then you the second smartest IDIOT I know!

    Too bad that you have it so bad with Trump. . . Keep an eye on who Biden's running mate it because it will either be them or that San Francisco SKANK Pelosi. By the I am from the San Francisco Bay Area!

  25. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    So anyone over 60 is incapable of handling a job? Or is it 70?

    Careful with your answers
    I quessed you missed the part about the brain surgeries ?

  26. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by rawbutter View Post
    Yeah, I'm not sure that poking fun at Biden's age is effective. He's only 3 years older than Trump. The Daily Show actually did a pretty clever thing recently. They realized that Fox News was complaining a lot about Biden and saying he was unfit to be president for various reasons. Then they juxtaposed each of those complains with a clip from Trump to point out the double-standard. So if you think Biden is unfit for these reasons, that should really rule out Trump too. At least Biden has some significant political experience to go along with his age.

    As for term limits, well, we do have term limits. They're called elections. If politicians don't do the kind of job that constituents want, they're voted out. Besides, if you impose term limits, the right would lose McConnell.


    Oh....and for the record, Biden was not my top pick either. In fact he was pretty close to the bottom. But I don't think I can't bring myself to vote Republican any more, not after the Impeachment trial. I've always considered myself pretty moderate, having voted for both Republicans and Democrats for all levels of office in the past. And I could understand why Trump was elected in the first place. Despite being a terrible person, he was the Republican candidate, so the party loyalists are obviously going to vote for him. But the Impeachment....that was our chance to get rid of him. The GOP could have made a great statement about their morality and integrity, and then they would have gotten Pence as president. Seems like a win-win to me. But instead, the party of "law and order" ignored the facts and proved that they only care about their own self-interest. So no, I can't vote to keep any Republicans (except Romney, of course). If we get some new blood, maybe. I still believe in a lot of Republican values. But I can't trust anyone who voted to acquit Trump.
    He got aquitted because he did nothing wrong. You liberals have no proof. Just spew garbage!

  27. #147
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    I think it looks like Bidens running mate is going to end up being Kamala Harris.

    President Harris ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by going_home View Post
    I think it looks like Bidens running mate is going to end up being Kamala Harris.

    President Harris ?
    So Sleepy Joe as Pres along with Harris as VP, who is rumored to have slept her way to the top? Man, a lot of sleeping happens in that party.

  29. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by rawbutter View Post
    Oh....and for the record, Biden was not my top pick either. In fact he was pretty close to the bottom. But I don't think I can't bring myself to vote Republican any more, not after the Impeachment trial. I've always considered myself pretty moderate, having voted for both Republicans and Democrats for all levels of office in the past. And I could understand why Trump was elected in the first place. Despite being a terrible person, he was the Republican candidate, so the party loyalists are obviously going to vote for him. But the Impeachment....that was our chance to get rid of him. The GOP could have made a great statement about their morality and integrity, and then they would have gotten Pence as president. Seems like a win-win to me. But instead, the party of "law and order" ignored the facts and proved that they only care about their own self-interest. So no, I can't vote to keep any Republicans (except Romney, of course). If we get some new blood, maybe. I still believe in a lot of Republican values. But I can't trust anyone who voted to acquit Trump.
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    Quote Originally Posted by going_home View Post
    I think it looks like Bidens running mate is going to end up being Kamala Harris.

    President Harris ?
    She also wants to take your guns away.

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