E-mag air down barrel/short stroking - trigger rod length?

[warriorsloan]

****see below post for video****

I've done some research, but the answer I found doesn't seem to work for my E-Mag.

Basics:
Standard E-Mag put together by Tuna with lvl 7 bolt
XMod Beta 1.8
All things stock

The gun fires great in E mode.

I am having a bolt stick problem in mechanical mode and then it leaks air down barrel and doesn't reset until you degas the gun.

At first I thought it was short stroking, but this only occurs when you try to do individual shots and not bounce the trigger. For example, it happens when you pull the trigger hard enough that it won't RT and bounce back.

I found the standard spec for the trigger rod length and it calls for 2.125" on the E-mag. If I set it to that, it will only fire in full auto on E-mode and still doesn't resolve the problem of the bolt stick with a full trigger pull on Mech mode.

I then adjusted it down to 2.10" and it worked better in E mode (only registering one shot per pull), but it still has the bolt stick in mech mode with one full pull.

Went down to 2.08" and it seems to be even happier, but can still replicate the problem.

My question is - should I keep shortening the trigger rod little by little to find where the gun won't have the bolt stick problem? Or am I chasing the wrong ghost and I need to be looking elsewhere?

I'd like to be able to play with the gun more reliably in mechanical mode and not solely rely on it working in E mode only.

Thanks!

[Tunaman]

I dont know why you would shorten the trigger rod. Put it back and start over. Mechanical mode requires full pulls and releases of the trigger. If you dont fire it like that it may short stroke. If you try to bounce the trigger you will risk wiping out the sear and bolt. Set the Xmod to default settings and try again. Just because it has full auto doesnt mean the gun will operate reliably in that setting. If you cant figure it out send it here.

[nak81783]

Did you make any adjustments to the trigger stop? Get everything back to stock, and let the trigger travel it’s full range of motion. If e-mode is working but mech mode isn’t, your e trigger is able to active to cycle the solenoid, but the mech trigger can’t travel enough to fire the marker. Bolt stick would occur in both modes if that were the issue.

[maniacmechanic]

when workin on E Mags , I always got it workin perfectly on the Mech side 1st , then go to the E side ,,, theres a bunch of adjustment on these & they all have to be correct for it to function on E & M

[warriorsloan]

I guess my point didn’t come across very clear on my initial post.

Everything is stock in the gun (including semi auto in E-mode). When I received it, it fired very erratically and I found out that the trigger magnets had come off/loose on both sides of the tigger.

I replaced the magnets and that fixed the erratic firing issue.

The new issue I’m facing is that it’s very delicate in mechanical mode, but operates fine in E mode.

I put the calipers on it and it read at 2.125” as to what was spec’d from AGD.

I’m just curious if what’s causing it to do so poorly in Mech mode is the trigger rod length. That’s the only thing that seems to have any effect on the issue.

I appreciate all of the help!

[nak81783]

Please elaborate on what you mean by delicate.

Is the bolt stick issue gone? Are all the leaks resolved?

E-mags use a .712” on/off” pin with a buna quad oring to seal on the head of the on/off pin. This combo will be a little RT-ish (bouncy) in mech mode in my experience. In my opinion, the marker is primarily meant (designed) to be an electro, with mech as backup; otherwise, why carry the extra weight? For comparison, mech X-Valves use a .750-ish on off pin with a urethane oring (smaller, but tighter sealing surface resulting in more friction). The quad oring in an E-mag has a larger sealing surface but less friction (looser fit, less squeeze). Between this and the shorter pin, it makes it easier on the solenoid to cycle the marker.

Continue to clearly define your issues, and I’m confident we can find a solution for you.

Please answer my question if you adjusted the trigger stop.

[warriorsloan]

I took a video to help illustrate my issue.

There have been no trigger stop adjustments. The only adjustment made to the gun was replacement of the trigger magnets.

See video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3a5IfeQjtc

This bit me last weekend when I was playing in mech mode when I went to shoot.

The gun was never set to full auto, but if the trigger rod is adjusted all the way out to 2.125" then it barely registers a pull. If it does register a pull, then it fires fully automatic. The problem is also exacerbated in mechanical mode and is more sensitive to the issue with the longer (spec'd) trigger rod length.

[nak81783]

Good video. I think you’ve got sticky or too tight on/off orings. I’ll try to circle back when I get time.

[warriorsloan]

****update***

I seem to have resolved the issue by adjusting the trigger rod length to 2.07"

2.12" trigger rod (spec'd from what I researched on this forum)
E mode - gun would barely register a shot, and if it did it would only fire in full auto
Mech mode - gun was very delicate with trigger pulls and bolt got stuck in the forward position very easily

2.08" trigger rod
E mode - gun fires as it should (one shot per pull)
Mech mode - gun is less delicate than it was at 2.12", but still difficult to do individual shots and the bolt gets stuck forward with too firm of a pull

2.06" trigger rod
E mode - gun fires as it should
Mech mode - wont break the sear to fire

2.07" trigger rod
E mode - gun fires as it should
Mech mode - gun finally fires as it should. Can do individual shots. Proper RT trigger effect. Not sensitive to more firm/longer trigger pulls where the bolt would get stuck.

This was a bit of trial and error for me. I'm uncertain as to why the standard spec on the E-mag isn't close at all for mine. Maybe someone here has some insight?

[nak81783]

I’m getting some of the open tech threads crossed. I thought we had you do the “does it leak when you hold the trigger back in mech mode?” Doesn’t looked like we did, and based on your video, it leaks with a hard pull. I assume it would leak with the trigger held back.

Please verify this is correct. Try it first at your current rod setting. If it doesn’t leak there, put the rod back to factory length and try again. If it leaks with the trigger held back and either rod length setting, replace one or both of your top on/off orings.

It really should work at the factory rod length setting, or within .010” of it, assuming you’re using a .712” pin length and buna quad top small oring.

[athomas]

****see below post for video****

I've done some research, but the answer I found doesn't seem to work for my E-Mag.

Basics:
Standard E-Mag put together by Tuna with lvl 7 bolt
XMod Beta 1.8
All things stock

The gun fires great in E mode.

I am having a bolt stick problem in mechanical mode and then it leaks air down barrel and doesn't reset until you degas the gun.

At first I thought it was short stroking, but this only occurs when you try to do individual shots and not bounce the trigger. For example, it happens when you pull the trigger hard enough that it won't RT and bounce back.

I found the standard spec for the trigger rod length and it calls for 2.125" on the E-mag. If I set it to that, it will only fire in full auto on E-mode and still doesn't resolve the problem of the bolt stick with a full trigger pull on Mech mode.

I then adjusted it down to 2.10" and it worked better in E mode (only registering one shot per pull), but it still has the bolt stick in mech mode with one full pull.

Went down to 2.08" and it seems to be even happier, but can still replicate the problem.

My question is - should I keep shortening the trigger rod little by little to find where the gun won't have the bolt stick problem? Or am I chasing the wrong ghost and I need to be looking elsewhere?

I'd like to be able to play with the gun more reliably in mechanical mode and not solely rely on it working in E mode only.

Thanks!

When is the last time the bolt spring was replaced? They are a consumable item and need to be replaced periodically. They should be replaced at about 20k to 25k cycles before they start having short stroke issues.