Most overpriced gun

[Rambozo]

No way your nuts. How can it possobly be worth the extra cost. I mean they are basically the same gun. Which means one will perform no better than the other. Yeah the angel has more bells and whistles but is it worth that much more?

[Predater]

busheys suck. my field owner is selling his to buy a angel or ematrix cuz the bushey sux.

[Rambozo]

Ok none of you are explaning exactly why bushys suck. You simply leave your statements at "busheys suck. my field owner is selling his to buy a angel or ematrix cuz the bushey sux."

What is this opinion based on? Do they suck because people tell you they suck?

And since they are soo close in design to the angel does this mean the angel sucks to? Or what about impulses? What is your opinion of them? do they suck?

No they are all good markers. They all perform nearly identically. They are practially the same damn markers.

Dont say anyone sucks unless you have some kind of supporting evidence as to why one sucks moreso than the others.

I would have thought the people here in the automag tech forums would be a bit more technically minded.

And its not as if the discusion is about which markers suck. Its about which markers are over priced. I gave my opinion based on similarities in marker design in relation to price. And I think its a pretty good sense of reasoning.

So dont even bother to give input untill you learn what the hell it is your talking about.

[Goldie D Pimp]

People can say what they want, but the way Bm's, angels, timmys, imp's, tribals, em1's work is all basically the same. I'm not getting into the arguement about what I think is better.

However I do have video that shows a bushy shooting hella fast with NO breaks.Bushy Vid 2.7mb

That video is me dumping a full loader from my warped slightly modded bushy in SEMI AUTO with NO Breaks.

I don't even want to involved with what's better and why.... I basically just want an excuse to show of my vid!!!

[Bushy2k]

I would have to say theres not just one gun thats over priced. Guns them selves are over priced your not paying for whats in the gun your paying for the bells and whistles its all about the name not the structure of the gun. All electros are more or less the same. Each gun has pros and cons. I personally shoot and love my bushy and they rock out of the box no need for upgrades. All the upgrades are just preference. But if i had to chose id say either the Angel or Excal are over priced.

[max-mag]

glad to see that no one voted against timmys, other than a 'mag, timmys are one of the BEST deals, only $580 for firing modes,milling,anodizing,dual front reg, ACE, staged barrel, and more.

[MiniMagger2002]

bump

[MrShutter]

I say either a Carter pump, a tricked out cocker, any of the Palmer guns, or a Sovereign II. I got the chance to shoot a Sovereign II once and was VERY disappointed with how it performed.

[El Pipi Fantasma]

I am agreeing with the last post, and the whole damn sport is expensive, shown by my soon-to-be-mine mag;
Minimag-Hopper Right $279 on sale
Retro Valve $300
Halo $130
Air America Melee 88/3k $260
Warp Feed-Clear AGD $137.50
Fore Grip-Benchmark Black $30
Bottom Line Kit-9in. 2hole $20
Sight Rail-ANS Shark Gill Rail Black $33
Barrel System-Total Freak Kit SS back 10in silver $210
Freak Front-12in Silver $54
Freak Front-14in Silver $54
Freak Front-16in Silver $54
Freak Front-18in Silver $54

All this for:
$1615.5

Good lord that is expensive, but soooooo worth it

Btw I am thinking of a Black warp-on-left minimag body, is it worth the $150?

[rudy]

I feel imho that bushmasters are not nearly as good as an angel. The reason is in the construction and tight tolerances. I can rememeber wdp recomending people not anodize angels unless it was a raw body due to the slight change in tolerances. I think they just dont keep the bushys that tight so you get a decent amount of problems with them. and they dont run as consistent. but it is true they are all basically the same design the difference comes in all the little details making sure every part works well. thats where one company is going to stand out look at the tribals they were the same but they turned out with alot of problems the manufacturer just cut to many corners. If a company put a good amount into making a real quality triple stacked gun that was cheaper then the angel then i would not be surprised if it started to move into the market drive the prices of angels down.

[pete-is-god17]

ladies and gents i can see that this has turned into an angels vs busheys type forum, which isnt what its for. I don think either of these markers are over priced, cuz angels will slightly outperform bushys. but bushys cost less. I like angels more because they are more comfertable, but thats just my preference.

[[M@g_D@ddy]]

ok, my .02 NOW.
lets do it like that one guy did
ANGELS=GOOD WHY? the reliabitlity. they have some of the best techies in the world. almost my whole team has angels and not one of them has ever gone down. well, wait, one, but that was my bad. it fell off and i stepped on it like right after it fell, wrong place wrong time thing. any way, angels are solid 'guns, just like 'mags. if u drop it, worry about what u dropped it on instead of ur angel/'mag. they'll be ok. consistancy. angels are hella consistant. a lot of ppl have had 270,270,270, etc. but what did it go to after that? angels go to like 271, 271, 269 etc. it will stay there.
why do u think dynasty plays w/ them? cuz they rule. they could have picked from any of the best 'guns out there, +plus gotten extra money for switchin. AND DYNASTY IS OWNING RIGHT NOW SO......
that is why angels rule, and everything else, except 'mags of course, drools.

ollie and ryan are awesome!!!!

BUSHIES= BAD WHY??? because of their reliability and consistancy. example, again on our team, before we had angels, some of us had bushies and some still do, and the solenoids were always messin up. and halfway through a game, the velocity would change on us and we would get hot 'gun penalties. which sometimes decided whether or not we went to the finals or gettin 4th, 5th etc....
that is why bushies are bad.

now don't bag on a thing until u try it. yea, when u first came into the sport, ur like holy crap, $150 is enough, why do u need a $1000 'gun??? the shock is just like gettin shot for the first time. well, u get used to it, and u get used to the prie of angels and hopefully u realize what u get when u buy an angel. hopefully u shoot one and realize it.
i'm not flaming, sorry if it sounds rough, but that's how i feel, and i know a helluva lot of guys and gals who think the same way too

[mykroft]

The Angel is an excellent gun, and IMHO worth the money. It's reliable, fast and easy to maintain. The IR3 is a bit pricey, considering it's lack of any real improvement over the LCD (What do I need COPS for, my Fly still chops less than most IR3's)

So is the Bushmaster/Defiant. It's fast and reliable. The only time you get real velocity issues is when you run more than 500psi into a 1st or 2nd gen HP Reg, and the manual tells you not to anyways. The 2 disadvantages of the Bushy are height & the trigger frame.

As to Dynasty Owning, notice that Strange is tied with them, and the Impulse is virtually identical to a Bushmaster in design( Minor internal differences, better looks & Vision)

Overpriced: Excalibur & Any Palmer.

Excalibur is a good gun, but it's pretty much a Shocker built into a 3-tube pyramid body like the angels. Good gun, price really needs to come down to the same as an Angel LCD.

Palmer: take any equivalent gun & double the price. Quality is excellent, but $900 US for a gun which is pretty much a stock cocker with basic hinge frame is way too much money.

[rudy]

mykroft
I will disagree with you on the palmer guns.
blazer base price is 400$ that is not bad at all. especailly for a gun that is lighter smaller and more reliable then most cockers and cirtainly stock ones. all other palmers are custom guns now you go to a really good airsmith and have him custom make you a cocker exactly how you want it. even if you go with readily available aftermarket parts the price could hit 900 or more real easy. and all he has to do is screw the stuff on. And as for the hinge frame its the same frame he always used it was only when bud was coping palmer to make the autococker that the sliding trigger was used. I heard someone say they took X years to put a spyder trigger on a cocker, well thats pretty pathetic since palmers always had them. Also palmer is much lower volume then worr games so his prices cant go to low, palmer could really step up if he wanted to. he just needs a place like this to here what the people want and fix his few mistakes. like not having a widely used thread on the blazer

[mykroft]

Well, the Blazer's base price is $400US, now add $109 for a reg, $80 for the protouch trigger (Which is about equivalent to an STO slide trigger) and your looking at how much? $589, compare to $370 for a stock cocker (Now with STO 45 frame & trigger). Next you'll need to add a 45 frame, because Palmer is still using old beretta style frames, and that's how much?, might as well go whole hog and add a 2x trigger. At best you are looking at $604 to match a $460 dollar cocker(Stock cocker+WGP hinge).

The other guns are even more expensive. I can get a completely custom, one-off Automacker from Punisher for the price of a Typhoon, which certainly isn't a one-off gun.

$900 cockers include milling & ano, which is most of the price difference.

My claim stands, Palmers are overpriced.

[rudy]

well first of all your getting into personal preference, why do you need a 45 frame? that would be your personal preference on a gun. AGD didnt use them and i dont think they do yet on the classics. and that is one of the things palmer should change cause he could probbaly make the gun with a 45 frame for the same price as the other frame he is just a little stubborn about some of that stuff, which I agree he should switch over to some more standard parts. The system your setting up has the arguably best reg on the market on that gun. And really on that gun you dont need a inline reg. and its not realy compareable to a cocker directly since you also still have a lighter gun that i also belive is more effecient. when you take all the items into account I feel the blazer is a better buy for your buck as a whole gun. its design is so much smaller and lighter. yet operates technically like a cocker.

[BTAutoMag]

you forgot spyders... i mean its getting insane now! all they do is weld on a new part and charge us 50$ for it.

[[M@g_D@ddy]]

i know what u mean. i loved the spyder "ones" and the elites. they were simple, clean, cheap, and great 'guns to customize. but now they're gettin ugly and expensive. kingman needs to get back to their roots. cheaper, worse performing 'guns are takin their place.

[MiniMagger2002]

bump

[OldSchoolMag]

I think that Dark Angels are overpriced.

Let's go over the differnces between stock and Dark:

About $700 and some milling.

Sweet cheezy fascheezy! Don't get me wrong, I love Angels, but if you take a stock LCD and slap a $30 trigger job on it, you've already got a better gun than a Dark.

And don't bring up that "Well, it's lighter than before" junk, it doesn't matter. A real man (or woman, ladies) wouldn't notice. Isn't that someone's quote? It rocks.

OSM

[RT_Luver]

dark Ir3 angel

[Snakebite78]

I got an older cocker i bought for about 400, little overpriced, looks like semi-poo, but man-o-man, when i hammer on that trigger, no breaks, not a lot of noise, smooth, accurate, i don't give a rats hind end what my gun looks like, if it performs, that's all that matters. When I'm running through the woods (i play rec), nobody can see what friggin color my gun is, but when i pelt them in the mask, they have a good idea what color paint i'm using and how good it tastes.

[Archangel Kid]

ok i wanna add onto this angel vs bushy before i say what i believe is over priced..... i've yet to see a bushy shoot 19bps but i have set a trigger job on my friends angel where it does shoot 19bps.... wit a warp and a custom 12v adapter done by psychomag.... also i don't believe that bushys and angels are alike... the whole feel of the angel feels more sturdy then a bushy.. the trigger on a bushy is so sloppy... IMO.... ok now what do i believe is over priced is the dark angel... there is nuttin good about the dark except A LITTLE TINY AMOUNT of milling & the fades....

[pete-is-god17]

ok, i would just like to say that you people who knock angels really shouldnt. they are great guns. they always shoot straight, have very little problems, are easy to maintain, have the best trigger pulls i have ever felt, and they look better than any bushy.

now, im not saying that bushys arent great guns, i kinda like them, but they are ugly as <B>*me*</B>, and when u pay alot for a gun it should at least be pleasing to the eye.

i have shot an excal and i was impressed, but it wasnt nearly all it was cracked up to be.

in conclusion, it all depends on what you are willing to spend your money on. if you find your purchase justifiable then your money is never wasted.

<B>Warning: No Cussing</B> - Miscue

[pete-is-god17]

as for over priced guns IN MY OPINION the palmer typhoon is very overpriced.

its 700 for a gun that cant even remove its barrel. some crazy guy at my field has two and they both perform like <B>*POOF*</B> he double feeds like 2-5 times a game and these usually result in barrel brakes and in some instances, chops. and i dont know if this is a problem for all of them, but he cant get his velocity to go above 250 on both of them, withought getting +- about 30 over the chrono.

<B>Warning: No Cussing</B> - Miscue

[Mag89]

The whole sport is expensive

[[M@g_D@ddy]]

lol, true 'dat.

[Jerhew]

Originally posted by pete-is-god17
as for over priced guns IN MY OPINION the palmer typhoon is very overpriced.

its 700 for a gun that cant even remove its barrel. some crazy guy at my field has two and they both perform like ****. he double feeds like 2-5 times a game and these usually result in barrel brakes and in some instances, chops. and i dont know if this is a problem for all of them, but he cant get his velocity to go above 250 on both of them, withought getting +- about 30 over the chrono.

results not typical.

first of all, all palmer guns have lifetime warranties...
as long as it isn't user-inflicted damage, any problem the guy is having could be fixed by palmer free of charge.
every gun palmer makes has a history card. palmer keeps track of all the work done on every gun, as well as who owned it. he probably lost his ball detente if he's double feeding...and there is no need to remove the palmer barrel because it is one of the best made, not to mention the ultra-quik strip bolt(you can remove the bolt, squeegie through, and replace it within 30sec)

yes palmers Typhoons are expensive. They are also hand built from scratch, nickel plated, and have the most consistant, and most dependable pneumatics system available. the reason they can't be milled is because they are made out of brass, not aluminum.
there is no need to do anything to it, because it is built to order, the way you want it. upgrades not needed.

and as far as the earlier comment about blazers being as good as any cocker...
go shoot one and compare...
now if that doesn't change your mind, try asking any 'cocker owner how much down time he has spend retiming it...blazers come timed, and stay timed.
we won't even go into the fact that 'cockers would still be snipers if it wasn't for Glenn Palmer.
oh and by the way...ask any knowlegable 'cocker owner what the best lpr and inline regs are: palmer rock, palmer stabilizer, hands down.
what's that piece built into the lower front of a typhoon? a rock? and where is that silly 4way valve that always gets messed up from being out in the environment on a cocker? protected in the grip frame? clever...
btw a typhoon will blow the doors off an angel any day

sorry if i sound a little testy, I just don't like it when someone has a lot to say and is completely uneducated about it. if you have any more questions regarding palmers go to the POG forum. and don't badmouth something you know so little about.
http://www.paintmagazine.com/cgi-bin...ast.pl?forum=8
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and by the way. the most overpriced gun in existence today is the DYE autococker. they're over a grand...for barely stock performance. i'd rather use a pump.

[mykroft]

The Typhoon is a nice custom gun. they are custom built (Somewhat restricted options), hence the price. Price a stroker conversion from anyone, and it'll be around the same price, after you include the cost of a pump. If you want a removable barrel, get a blazer or cocker, the stock barrel is a good medium bore barrel, just don't run Diablo through it.

Note that Palmer did not invent the autococking pump, he did develop it around the same time Bud Orr did, and they did communicate some during the development, rack that idea up to the 2 of them, not just Palmer.

As to the Blazer, I've shot a couple, and IMHO the tricked out ones compare to the current stock cockers. They are much nicer than a 99 stock cocker, but the current 2K2's are their equal in performance, and the aftermarket cockers with a good hinge frame are noticably superior. I've owned 2 cockers, and the only time they got re-timed was when I modified some part of the trigger assmbly (New Frame on my 2K2, new unslotted plate on my old 99). Cockers are incredibly reliable if you stick to good parts(Palmer, WGP, Belsales), and DFWI.

Palmer makes some of the best regs on the market, and teh QuickRam is the best ram for LP operation, due to it's larger diameter. I'm not a huge fan of the palmer 4-way, but it's as good as a STO 4-way, just more $$.

My problems with Palmer are pretty much the restrictions on what they'll do to a 'Custom' marker and the price/performance ratio of the Blazers.

[puckmaster]

The whole dam sports expensive.

But other than that, the KAPP Flame cocker(but it is sure is one nice looking gun)