Why the E-Mag isn't a "MainStream" gun

[FrAuStY]

Rudy, I apologize if I came off wrong by calling you a cow in my last post, i shouldn't post from work when I'm having a stressful day. Here it is.. I'm sorry. on to my post..I do agree with in you that cockers can be more customized to fit each individuals taste. Personal preference if you will. Like any other "cosmetic" detail. I personally could careless what it looked like as long as it was rough, tough.. and shot straight. I didn't really want this post to turn into a cocker/mag debate.. we've had enough of those before.
As far as spin.. I do believe AGD did some research on it.. and its almost impossible to control as no paintball is perfectly round. The air moves around different pb's at different speeds due to in cosistencies in the shell of the paintball. Not only that, even if you did shoot with NO spin.. it'd be like a knuckle ball in baseball. You wouldn't know where it'd go. The little amount of spin induced on the ball heps to stablize its flight (somewhat) There are way too many variables involved for one marker just as consistent as another, supplying pressure to accelerate a paintball, to say one is more accurate than another. My mag has a +/- 2 fps over a chrono thats pretty consistent. If a cocker gets that over the chrony it'll be just as "accurate" as my mag unless you had a flatline or skid plate (galactic z-body) to induce back spin. Even then, it wouldn't be more accurate as the ball would tend to lob one way or the other. It's late.. and I gotta get to work tomorrow besides.. I'm lost aren't you? Anyway.. I really just wanted to apologize for being a jerk.

[Jesse_K]

Rite on,

See this was all i asked the whole time is that you really think about the two markers ( Though you dont want this to turn into a cocker vs. mag thread )

If you havn't figured out by now that i am a Autococker lover, well i am ( A.I.R all tha way ).

I personally feel that cockers are where its at. Soon, they will be the dominate ( if not already ) marker in tournament paintball. There are electronic grips for cockers now ( even though i disagree with the whole concept. )

I compare the Autococker to like the United States

Strong,Accurate,Smart,and smooth as all hell

[AcemanPB]

well why don't we do this, lets make a list of all the things you would want in a paintball gun and we'll see how the mag fits those catogories

herer is what i can think of

light weight - (extremes should be one of the lightest markers on the market from what i've heard)

fast - (20bps nuff said)

easy on paint - lvl 10 and ACE

reliable - (CF00147)

easy to fix - (if ya can't fix AGD can, and for free!)

small - (mags are small)

good customer service - (it's AGD come on)

good upgrades - (you can go retro, emag, SFL, all that stuff now it's not as much as other markers but it is a good bit)

short trigger - you all know the secret of the emag don't ya



now with this being said the only thing seeming to hold back the mag is advertisement to get the gun out on the market, now also some of the things i mentioned are not into full production but when they come out i believe we will see a change in attitude towards AGD and the mag

[joeyjoe367]

Originally posted by AntwanRT
all i have to say is.... CF00147.

b00 y43h!

[joeyjoe367]

Originally posted by Jesse_K
Rite on,

See this was all i asked the whole time is that you really think about the two markers ( Though you dont want this to turn into a cocker vs. mag thread )

If you havn't figured out by now that i am a Autococker lover, well i am ( A.I.R all tha way ).

I personally feel that cockers are where its at. Soon, they will be the dominate ( if not already ) marker in tournament paintball. There are electronic grips for cockers now ( even though i disagree with the whole concept. )

I compare the Autococker to like the United States

Strong,Accurate,Smart,and smooth as all hell

Ignant' man. Ignant'. No, they will not dominate paintball. It's on it's way out. They're going to be like ol' hot-rods. You wouldn't race one, but it sure is fun to customize and make pretty.

Strong? uh... yeah, whatever

Accurate? Ball/boresize is all I gotta say about that.

Smart? Since when did 'cockers get brains? Engineering-wise, mags are definatly superior.

Smooth as hell? Whatever floats your boat.

I think they're cool guns too, I just don't think they're as cool as everyone says.

the fact that the 'cocker's pneumatics limit it to a firing rate of 9bps (ask anyone designing electronics for 'cockers) is a huuge downside.

I'll take a 20bps over 9bps + Hissing/leaking/back-block-thru-the-goggles anyday.

[rudy]

Jesse_K i want you to thin about it too. im not sure exactly what you mean by some of you chosen words and you should back it up with support or reason.

for instance i never in my life considered a cocker a smart gun or design for a gun. so i would have to have you explain what you mean. maybe you have soemthing else in mind
I dont agree with the strong statement either. I have seen and heard of all kinds of stuff that guns go through. people can quite easily mess up the front pneumatics on a cocker bumping into things. and i know a guy how broke his cocker body on a fall. I have heard about guns that lasted through all kinds of stuff but cocker sdont rank anywhere
near the top from what ive seen.
smooth as hell, well this is really not that kind of a forum, i mean really are you gonna use that as a technical assesment of a gun, uh yeah this gun rates a 8.5 on the smooth as hell scale gets 600 shots one a 68 3000 and that one rates a 6.8 and gets 750 shots on the same tank. hmmm well ill take the one that rates a 8.5. that just isnt really worth mentioning its complete opinion.


AcemanPB
well we will see how lvl 10 goes but lets leave that till it hits the market.
the upgrades have a long way to go

we also have to have easy feild striping and cleaning
low kick and muzzle rise
efficient
3 things you forgot to mention that the mag is behind in, and are important

FrAuStY dont worry about it. i know about the agd test on spin, but i did not see in there where they used other guns and a high speed camera to compare and see if thier were small amounts of inconsistency in slight spinning. say for instance a cirtain gun takes 3 shots 1 has 1 spin per unit right spin. another has 3 spins per unit and back spin and the last has 5 spins per unit and forward spin. Now say another gun has all the same 3 spin orientations but its spins per unit are .5, 2, 1 when the balls get out to longger distances where the spins starts to show some effect which gun will be more accurate? that is a completely possible scenario neither gun controlled the spin just one gun had less of a tendancy to put spin on the ball. all of us have a so called skid plate it jsut comes in the form of a ball detent, and who knows how a ball might pick up some extra spin when the bolt is moving. maybe some guns put more or less spin on the ball in thier operation.

soem people incuding AGD have tried dual ball detents feeling they may effect spin.

I am not saying anything is true but i think they are worth betested by several different independant parties to see if the results all line up. and give the same conclusion

[AcemanPB]

new lvl 10 is done right now, it's just being tested

efficent - mag is good but not the best
low kick - from the videos the lvl 10 had no kick and muzzle rise (you can always hold your gun tighter too)
easy clean - mags aren't the best in this catagory compared to other guns but barrel comes off easy...

[Fleisher]

Looks like the same arguements I get in the UK on the Mag/Cocker/Angel thing ,in my opinion the new IR3 is a step backwards I can`t comment on the States but over here their about as popular as a fart in a space suit,LCDs are selling for the same price as the IR3,their fast but you can`t hit anything with `em.
Cockers ,yeah their good but why is everybody in the UK buying Race Gun (electronic) frames if their almost as quick as Angels,Timmys etc?
I`m lucky my marker is as accurate as a Cocker, faster than an Angel,don`t chop paint and is highly reliable.
What is it?...Emag Extreme,so long as AGD market `em right they should have a lot of worried competion,I mean lets face it most people buy markers on the result of what their buddys,media,industry says not whats the best marker for them.

[pumpamatic]

I think it isn't mainstream because it came out 2 years ago. I think the time between when everyone tried something else to the Emag's release most mags were put into the backup gun spot, many still remain there. They are one of the best backups you can find and always use. Mags are very popular among rec players, just tournament level need their tournament level paint which the mags are sometimes known to break. I know everybody is saying level 10 will fix that, but no tournament player is gonna sit with their 1000 dollar gun and wait, they'll buy a gun which generally never breaks paint and play that tournament this week. They don't care if low pressure, closed bolt, high flow, all that crap is a myth, but they do know that if the gun isn't breaking paint it will shoot better. I can't honestly say there have been times when my mag did shoot that 1-2 bounce paint flawlessly.

[einhander619]

A mag can't be customized? HA!!! Look at all the customization options that are available just on this site! Redrider, KPcustoms, Dingo(I guess), Heather the Grip Gurl, Tysonmachado, and anyone else I may have forgotten. These guys can make a mag truly custom and one of a kind for alot less than you'd be able to for other guns. I think we should give everyone on this site who customizes mags a big round of applause!

[EnderWigginPballin]

I HAVE THE ONE SECRET TO SHOOTING FARTHER WITHOUT BACKSPIN

And no, you don't just turn up your velocity.

You use inertia. Take a few different paintballs, and weigh them. the heaviest one will shoot the farthest... but not by much really, probably less than 3 feet more... But I haven't done any math, so i don't know how much farther a slightly heavier ball would shoot.

[Fleisher]

Right pay attention, no matter what anybody else think they know,or have been told by an "expert" the Extreme/Ace setup DOES NOT chop paint,mines shot over 50,000 balls of various makes/ grades and in all weathers and I`ve had maybe 20 go in the breach ,most of which I think was paint related.I might be just lucky,but I know 2 other guys with the same marker and they will tell you the same thing !
I`ve used and owned 2 Cockers and yes they chopped less than a Mag,but they still chopped and as for accuracy their about as accurate as anything that uses a glorified supository for a projectile,we`re using paintballs not lead what do you expect, I mean if markers were as accurate as players often think/say then every game would be over in 10 seconds .

[MiniMagger2002]

cockers suck. u have to spend liek 2 grand on them to get a gun that would be as good as an e-mag, wich is 900.

[EnderWigginPballin]

hey, wow, you all here are really close minded about other guns...

REALISTICALLY.... on a stock cocker, what do you need... new bolt, grip frame or hinge frame, barrel, yeah that's pretty much it. and that is still less than an E-mag.

And--- There really is no "better gun" in every way. There are realiable guns, consistent guns, fast, whatever... but you will ultimately play the best with whatever gun you are most comfortable with.

If I can't stand Cockers, give me an Evolution or a Freeflow and I still won't be good with one, if I can rip on a Mag trigger, give me an RT Pro and I'll be better with it than if I were using any other gun... EVERYTHING is feel. If the gun feels good in YOUR hands, then it is your BEST gun.

[DeFAuLt]

I can tell you exactly why the E-Mag isn't a mainstream gun. It's because most of the people who can afford a high-end gun beleive all that "Cocker's have a flatter trajectory" and "Cocker's are more accurate because they are closed-bolt" crap and go with what everyone else says. The only gun that has a flatter trajectory than any other is the Tippmann Flatline. The single most accurate gun at long range is also the Tipmann Flatline because all other guns will fall short at that range. Most people's gun path is something like this: Brass Eagle somehting or other, Spyder, then it's either an Autocoker or Automag (unless they are a rich mofo who can afford an Angel). They go online and read all they can about either gun and buy the Cocker because of all the range and accuracy propaganda.

[DeFAuLt]

Originally posted by EnderWigginPballin
I HAVE THE ONE SECRET TO SHOOTING FARTHER WITHOUT BACKSPIN

And no, you don't just turn up your velocity.

You use inertia. Take a few different paintballs, and weigh them. the heaviest one will shoot the farthest... but not by much really, probably less than 3 feet more... But I haven't done any math, so i don't know how much farther a slightly heavier ball would shoot.

The heaviest paint is the RPS Premium Gold. So if you want more range go with that.

[MDethCKR]

ive got a cocker.....its huge!
ive got a nitro.......its a football!

i like using my cocker...it weighs 15lbs easily....but for me, it takes my mind off of aiming/*****in/bein a pussy

and the funniest thing...i play front...w/ a 16in

my point is...most people are just ignorant...they know that cockers arent that much better

having shot just about every gun on the market....there not that much different

sorry for all the dots, its how i type

[ashriel28]

Originally posted by rudy
Now the mag has a couple things going for it and in reality its an amazing gun. I mean you can buy the same design all the way from a 300$ classic too a 1300 Xtreme all from the same company. and it has the fastest regulator in the market not only that but it wont break down its a durable gun. but that isnt good enough to sell the gun now it has to have a real advantage in I would say at least 3 areas to break back into the market. and be equal to all other high end guns everywhere else. the mag is small but being small is really not all that great unless its mass is low too. I think that AGD should be offering a reduced wieght valve and bolt. for its top of the line gun, the xtreme. the gun is fast the only thing i can say with that is tk dont be bashfull show people the gun can kick far past 20 blow every one out of the water, other companies arent affraid to flaunt numbers with shootdown show us how fast the mag can go. show the thing doinf 30 bps if it can and get it up to the 26 without shootdown. And f we dont have a solution to the cleaning the bolt the thing better not ever break a ball in or near the breach. If AGD can pull this off the mag will come back up to mainstream. and all kinds of people will be buying them for no other reason then they saw soem pro shooting it or cause it looked pretty. but of course AGD cant stop there they have to keep going integrated hoppers and what not. It wont surprise me if right now wdp is already working with a cirtain someone many of us know on a integrated hopper.

1) there are videos out there showing the xMag at 20bps full auto, check out odyssey's website. Oh, and this is 20bps with no chops whatsoever, try that on any other gun.

2)the xmag has one of the lightest bolts out there. the level 10 weighs 1.3 oz, if i remember correctly.

3) agd does offer integrated hoppers, called the intelliframe. What about the warp feep, also an agd invention.

4) the xmag is also almost all aluminum, its nice and light.

5) you can get fades/powdercoats that make it bling just as much as any marker out there.

TK and AGD have really outdone themselves, this is a world class marker.

[kenndogg]

this thread is over a year old...let it die.

[MDethCKR]

NEVER!!!....ok

[nate2k191]

Originally posted by Top Secret
I actually find it rather amusing to see people make fun of my "tube" while they hold their mainstream gun. After a few games, they are cleaning out goo or fixing their gun, while I'm loading up more pods.

Exactly ! ! ! ! when i first, FIRST saw a mag, i wondered how they are so figgin godly when they are just a cylinder on a trigger frame. i had NO idea they were so good, untill i bought one my self, and i dont think i will ever gat anything but a mag. mine has never broken/had probs/ or anything, and if it does i got 3 stars on my valve. i feel sorry for the people with cockers and stuff.

[jobo_18]

Originally posted by WickeDKlowN
i dont know about other ppl, but i actually dont want mags to go mainstream. one of the reasons i got a mag is because theyre not and i like to be different. thats why i drink faygo and listen to icp.

I agree with WickeDKlown it's nice haveing and unpopular gun. People always want to look at it and it becomes the center of attention.

The best part however is when someone with a cocker,impulse or any other marker like that snickers at your mag before the game, and when it's all over you get to laugh your *** off at them because your mag was either

A) still working when their gun was commiting suicide

or

B)the gun that sent them to the sidelines.

[jewie27]

wurd up FRAUSTY, tell it like it is homeboy. AGD All the way!!!! You cannot beat a 'Mag with ACE and Level 10 inside. E-Mags and X-Mags will rip Angels a new @$$hole, two times. WGP Autocrappers don't even come close.

[dyeforever]

I can't shoot a cocker!!

and i'm proud of it!!
cockers have so much kick back compare to my mag. also that back block scares me. i think it's going to hit my face. sure a cocker can outshoot me but i got a tighter pattern.
"the tighter it is the hard it feels"

[Evil1]

I have owned cockers and have never owned or shot one that a mag can't easily keep up with. The EBlades are nice but still, they are nothing real special. I've sent plenty of EBade owners walking w/ my EMag.

[FrAuStY]

Oh no... not this thread again! Well since it sent me an email.. I guess I'll reply.. then remove it from my subscribed list.

I can't count the number of times I've be elim'd by a player who owns a cocker....... because I've never been elim'd by a cocker. Is that coincidence... maybe. But if they were sooooo good... and soooooo accurate... I should be able to at least count how many times I've been shot by one.

I can however count the number of cocker owners, who threw a fit because I sent them walking to the dead box. One of which was at SEAO II . As far as not being able to keep up with cockers, wtf are you thinking? Cockers are slow. Eblade cockers.. are quick... but not as quick as other electros. They still have multiple moving parts, and squences that require "time" the mag... requires all of .03 seconds to complete it's cycle.. most cockers require at least .07 seconds... thats a huge difference in cyclitic rate. Cockers will never be BETTER than another gun. They have their own advantages and disadvantages.. which just makes them an all together different gun. Big freaking deal.

I wiped once... it was my arse.. and I used a cocker

[Evil1]

I think it comes down to preference. mags and cockers came out around the same time and a lot of people started shooting them when they first came out. So I think its more of what people are used to. There are die hard cocker fans that swear by them, same w/ mags, and they are both good guns, and they both have there pros and cons. I swear by my mags, but my best friend who started playing the same time I did swears by his cockers.

[LoveMyMagMoreThanYou]

There are only two reasons that the E/Xmag are not mainstream. Lack of Advertising and lack of sponsorship. Otherwise they have a competitive marker. I'm never relinquishing my 'Mag. I've had it for 4 years. I've only had to replace the occasional o-ring and clean and oil it. My kind of marker. No one I play with can outshoot me. I don't care what kind of marker they have. As far as chopping, Level 10 took care of that. I'm out!

[GA Devil]

it comes down to the consumer needs to see a couple on the podium in a national tournement. Then everyone will run out and get 1. The E and Xmag has what it takes. Now someone has to put them up there.

[No Excuse]

Originally posted by FrAuStY

Eblade cockers.. are quick... but not as quick as other electros. They still have multiple moving parts, and squences that require "time" the mag... requires all of .03 seconds to complete it's cycle.. most cockers require at least .07 seconds... thats a huge difference in cyclitic rate. Cockers will never be BETTER than another gun. They have their own advantages and disadvantages.. which just makes them an all together different gun. Big freaking deal.

Im no cocker lover however I think you are mistaken.
Here is an eblade shooting 35bps, makes the 26bps claim of the mag seem a little slow doesnt it?

http://www.planeteclipse.com/mpg/MOV00386.MPG