stopblock idea

[QUINCYMASSGUY]

The secret is out about what exactly the ULE trigger is! Now that these questions are answered I'm sure we all have more new questions and would looooove for the mods and people priveleged enough to get the ULE triggers and learn all about them to give their honest opinions about how they will work for normal Mag owners, any weaknesses in them, the best features of them, how difficult it is to set it up, and such! Please by all means post issues you want addressed in this thread, not congratulations or anything, AGD knows we like it, and hopefully they will respond. And if an offical thread comes out that would make this redundant, I fully understand if the moderators want to pull this one.

My first question: The Warpig article seemed to allude to the fact that the retro effect might still exist or is able to exist... for those using them, is this true? Does this prevent chuffing? Wouldn't that make for easy sweetspotting, ie not tourney legal? Do the shims change this?

My next one: Is the trigger pull length affected at all, in other words how short can the pull be while still effectively cycling at, lets say, 15bps? I presume same as before but I'm sure if we could in any way get the length as close to electric as the weight is, we'd be in heaven.

Three's a charm: Do you see any room for upgrades to this or the Lvl 10 setup that could increase ROF, shorten pull, or anything? No I'm not expecting it and definitely won't be bummed, just wondering as AGD has redesigned so much lately that creating a part to replace the sear to enable a shorter pull would definitely be something I could see these innovators move to next!

And finally, Tom touched on before that this on/off had an issue related to dwell times on EMags/XMags but also hinted that this lighter pull could make an affordable e-trigger with smaller solenoid possible. Any feedback on this? Would this open up aftermarket companies to release E-frames, possible in a 90 degree style?

Come on folks, give us the dirt!

[GT]

Originally posted by QUINCYMASSGUY
And finally, Tom touched on before that this on/off had an issue related to dwell times on EMags/XMags but also hinted that this lighter pull could make an affordable e-trigger with smaller solenoid possible.

this is my speculation, none of this info is based in fact!

I think it would be mighty nice if AGD desgined a smaller selnoid, use that combined with the ULE trig, and would therefore use a smaller batt. This would make a very very light ULE E/Xmag.

Your signature is WAY over the limit. You now have over 80K in it. Thats more than double allowed. Please revise it according to the rules you will find posted near the top in Friendly Corner. thanks! cphilip

[acecl22]

in some other thread, tom said that the ULE trigger is part of a much bigger picture, i cant wait to see what he has in store for his loyal mag owners

[QUINCYMASSGUY]

That other thread and the "bigger picture" was what raised my attention to the possibility of upgrades or possibly something to replace the sear and/or rail so the Mag may not even shoot using a sear pin anymore. I don't know, all speculation, but now that the ULE on/off is out we might have a better idea.

[SIGSays]

i know what he has in mind... a new scheme to take away even more money....

lvl 10 took money from us
ule bodies took money
iframes took money
ult will take money
xvalves even more money taken..

when will the madness stop??

Arg!!!! Too big and too many things in signature!!! Change the signature dude... cphilip

[acecl22]

i wonder if tom's engineers could play with the sear assy so that the assembly itself moves the same amount, but you only have to move the trigger a fraction of what it is now, im sure its possible, just dont know how

[acecl22]

lol, since nobody else makes quality upgrades for mags yet, i dont mind paying agd for their great inovations... i wonder how long until they run out of ideas for things to revolutionize paintball, nahhhh thatll never happen

[Automaggin2]

I think AGD needs to do SULE, super ultra light engineering. Titanium, carbon fiber, you know you know


JP.

And a smaller solenoid....hmmm....i dunno.....

[SG Avenger]

Originally posted by SIGSays
i know what he has in mind... a new scheme to take away even more money....

lvl 10 took money from us
ule bodies took money
iframes took money
ult will take money
xvalves even more money taken..

when will the madness stop??

When AGD introduces the first Cyber Paintaball Gun [grin]

[jdev]

Originally posted by Automaggin2
I think AGD needs to do SULE, super ultra light engineering. Titanium, carbon fiber, you know you know


JP.

And a smaller solenoid....hmmm....i dunno.....

is your gun really that heavy that you cant carry it with ULE parts? :P

if so, you should consider workin out more


QUINCYMASSGUY

i can answer your first question, best to my ability.

it does not seem to actual shorter the trigger pull itself. I fired a few rounds on this bad larry at the megameet, pull didnt seem any different than my x-valved mag. was WAY ligher though

[Kellen_p8nt]

Avenger do you think those next generation cyber paintball guns will include the hot chick?

[SG Avenger]

Originally posted by Kellen_p8nt
Avenger do you think those next generation cyber paintball guns will include the hot chick?

if they wan't it to sell it damn well better! [grin]

[cheetah256]

Originally posted by QUINCYMASSGUY
That other thread and the "bigger picture" was what raised my attention to the possibility of upgrades or possibly something to replace the sear and/or rail so the Mag may not even shoot using a sear pin anymore. I don't know, all speculation, but now that the ULE on/off is out we might have a better idea.

i seem to remember him talking about efficiancy modifications next...

[cphilip]

It doesn't shorten the pull. That he has said many times...

When will the madness end? Well...you figure he gotta retire some day?

[acecl22]

lol... i wasnt sayin that it would shorten the pull, i was just sayin that maybe the engineers could think of a way to shorten the pull, anythin is possible, quincymassguy and gtrsi are speculating on a new solenoid i think, maybe because not as much pressure is needed for the solenoid to do its job, so it wouldnt need as much power... hence a smaller bat pack, and a lighter gun

[magnj]

AGD should offer a cheap Electro Frame for the Automag/RT. If he could put out a frame under 175 that allowed something like 18BPS, he would make mad stupid crazy money

[Nomad]

If he did that would there be any point for the E-mag or the X-mag?

[Catch22]

When will the madness end? Well...you figure he gotta retire some day?

No, That will just give him more time to think!!! Nooo!

[askman]

why would anybody want an electronic frame, when ULE trigger is already as light as electronic frame, without the hassle. I will be getting ULE for sure for my Xvalve, because I wanted to stay all mechanical.

Also, the article basically state that Level X bolt is mandatory for ULE trigger.

[durtysoufcraka]

will this ule trigger be made w/intellifeed capabilities or will i be stuck buying an intelli frame that is not quite as sexy or light as the ULE trigger. ...intelli frame + ule .... please?

[Aliens-8-MyDad]

will this ule trigger be made w/intellifeed capabilities or will i be stuck buying an intelli frame that is not quite as sexy or light as the ULE trigger. ...intelli frame + ule .... please?

what? i may be tired but this doesnt make any sense.... unless u thinking the ULE trigger is a frame.. it isnt a frame its a on/off valve upgrade, you can use any frame u want with it, but u must have level 10

[TransMan]

Originally posted by acecl22
i wonder if tom's engineers could play with the sear assy so that the assembly itself moves the same amount, but you only have to move the trigger a fraction of what it is now, im sure its possible, just dont know how

You could have some sort of gears in it that would shorten the trigger pull but it would make the pull heavier again....

[TheJester]

well is it hard to set up? look at the diagram, how can it be hard, there's only a few differences from the stock on/off valve. the only thing you have to adjust is the amount of shims you place between the on/off top and bottom...how hard can it be? sounds like you can train a monkey to do it.

in terms of the reactivness of it, well i think that might go back to some of my original speculation, it all depends on how big the head is compared to the stock pin, and how heavy it is compared to the stock pin. the only thing i'm not sure about is because the larger piston size down by the sear. it's been a while since i've last done anything with pistion dynamics, or anything remotly realivant. but if you have the same amount of force applied to the same size piston (all compared to the stock pin) but that pushing on a larger surface area....does that not result in lower pressure? if you have 800 psi on a square inch size pin (i know, the on/off pin is a LOT smaller than that) but the bottom of that pin (the part that's hitting the sear for the reactiveness) is 2 square inches...isn't it hitting the sear with 1/2 the force it would be if it were the same size? please correct me if i'm wrong here, but i think the reactiveness of it is determined by the vairied pin sizes. i realize that doesn't answer the question on if it's still there or not, cuase i guess we just have to wait and see.

pull length....thing about what affects the pull length in a mag, why it's so short to begin with. it's the distance the sear has to travel down to release the bolt. so because this is an on/off mod, not a sear or bolt mod, the trigger pull length will be unaffected, for the sear will release the bolt at the same place.

[sbpyro]

is your gun really that heavy that you cant carry it with ULE parts? :P

if so, you should consider workin out more


QUINCYMASSGUY


Hey leave the fat ppl alone ( we smell our own)

[kosmo]

I remember back in "the day" people would grind and bevel their sears to let it slip off the bolt smoother and sooner. If done just right, you could have one hell of a trigger. But polishing a little too much would cause your gun to go full auto all the time. And since the sear is made from a pansy metal, it would wear and go full auto after a while any way and you would have to replace the sear. Anywho, perhaps an aluminum or SS sear would be more viable? Best part is that its simple enough to do yourself, though it prolly voids the warranty.

BTW, if anyone is confused as to what Im talking about, heres a link: Ravi's Paintball Place

[Python14]

So let me get this straight. I have a standard valve with 2 orings so it says it will work....but how well?

Is it worth my money to try it when the beta comes out?

[acecl22]

i think im gonna wait till a few batches after the beta testing, so that i can see reviews, and so that all the kinks are worked out

[QUINCYMASSGUY]

Massive idea below, something of a ramble, knowledgable people in physics, paintball guns, please critique. AGD definitely welcome to contribute or ask followup questions.

I think the sear is the bottleneck now when changing to a mechanical mag with the same pull as an electric. If a new gear system with a sear holding just the edge of the bolt but not wearing could be designed (big could, just throwing concepts) this would allow shorter pull and hopefully only require minimal weight to pull. Work=Distance X Force. AGD has reduced the force needed without increasing the distance which is awesome. Less needed to pull the trigger. The same benefit can be gotten again if the pull can be reduced OR the pull can be reduced at a cost of more force being required (the gear system). So a sear setup with adjustable gears could be used to either lengthen the pull and make it even lighter OR to shorten the pull and make much shorter. Imagine a 1.5lb trigger that only needs to go a millimeter to cycle. a gear system connecting the trigger and sear (not the sear pin) could do that. I wish I could sketch it out, but I suck at graphics programs and don't have the time. Imagine a small gear around the trigger axis and a larger gear under the sear. Now, instead of a trigger rod imagine a rod with teeth that sits atop this larger gear and connect at the base of the sear, just below the sear pin, so when the gear turns, it pushes and activates the sear. So by adjusting the size of the larger gear you could have the following pull combinations (going on the Mag pull being 3mm although I'm probably wrong):

4mm X 11.25oz = 45 points work (33% increase in pull, 33% decrease in weight making it sickingly light but risks more chuffs)
3mm X 15oz = 45 points work
2mm X 22.5oz = 45 points work (33% reduction in pull, 33% increase in weight, so heavier but less chuffs and easier to walk for those with strong fingers)

Now... the question is how to take advantage of the gear system and using the new settings (2mm x 22.5oz) and find a way to trim that weight off the pull. Or with the other settings (4mm X 11.25 oz) find a way to shorten the distance the sear and on/off pin need so the trigger pull itself can be moved back to 3mm or better. Either way, setting up the new sear mechanism where you can choose gears (and I have a perfect idea on how to have this customizable) could be the next big thing.

There's my idea (patent pending, jk), critique away! But I know the physics support it, it's just a case of if it is worth doing to a Mag. But it would be a drop-in replacement for the sear setup and fit fine in current gripframes, I have in all mapped out in my head.

[TheJester]

the thing with the gears...i've thought about actually trying something similar...but with more of a pulley system (little easier to make than micro gears)...but here are problems i see. the reason i never attempted to was i couldn't think of a way for it to work in reverse...for the return of the trigger. may have a similar problem with gears. also, what about durablility? they would have to stay in place for 1, so where you plan on putting these? in the rail? in the frame? how do you plan to hold them precisely in place? also, they would have to be small...small usually means fragil, how would you prevent the teeth from being damaged on the kick return of the trigger?

[QUINCYMASSGUY]

You're right in that a belt system would have an issue with the return, and I admit I hadn't put as much thought on the return. BUT the smaller gear would be set with the pin holding the trigger as its axis. So it would move exactly as the trigger does. If a sear tip can handle the bolt pressure I'm sure the gear could handle the push from the trigger return. Unless cheap metal is used. The second gear is a tough one. What if a new rail was designed with a place to hold the second gear and the new sear assembly? Or a much thinner rail-like part that sits under the current rail? Doesn't have to be too thick at all, even as thin as a penny. Just enough to be strong and hold the gear steady. So the gear would be right above the safety, held in place by an attachment to the rail. So it would almost be like a spur hanging down. Plus the sear would sit in the rail and having a new rail lets AGD set the distance and height optimally so the sear bottom and the gear can line up. Not totally sure, if this idea was fine how it is I'd be making $$$ off it. But I know it can be done. I might sketch it out later on.