Tom: FYI a collection of observation about products

[cphilip]

Ok here they are Tom. All just FYI. They are a collection of things people have told me they think make sense. Some of them actualy do to me. They are those never ending string of constructive criticisms that may make sense to them and perhaps not to you...but none the less...here they are:


1) Make a Carbon Fiber Single Trigger 45 frame for the Classic, Auto and Mini and ditch the old style Carbon fiber grip that doesn't take 45 grips.

2)Make an intelli style frame without the expensive internal Intelli milling to lower cost so someone can buy an Aluminum 45 frame from AGD on the Mag at a lower cost who doesn't care about the Intelli Feature.

3) Complete the Intellifeed feature with all the roller switch and plugs and such, all ready to go, in house, and charge for it.

Some old ideas and some fairly new.

[shartley]

3) Complete the Intellifeed feature with all the roller switch and plugs and such, all ready to go, in house, and charge for it.

[cphilip]

Yep! While I may be capable of doing it a lot of people out there are not. And sure don't want to "learn" on a $120 Frame! In fact I am a bit nervous about it myself. And you hit the nail right on the head with the volume buy and such. And more importantly (to me and maybe others) it would be done right the first time by AGD. I'd even be willing to pay a little more myself for that.

On the lower end of the AGD Marker market, the hardest thing to sell is the grip frame the way it is. Most kids would be happy with any 45 frame on it and could care less if its Carbon Fiber or even single trigger. They just want to be able to put cool grips on it. Give it to em then I say!

A lot of them do not like the slightly swept back angle of it like it is now. In the old days when markers were held more out in front it worked but now with the "tucked in" style we all play its just a bit awkward. They don't like the "feel" of it. Shouldn't cost more to change the angle and a few minor dimentions should it? Maybe I am wrong?

[manike]

Originally posted by cphilip
cost more to change the angle and a few minor dimentions should it? Maybe I am wrong?

For the Carbon Fibre grips it would require a whole new tool = expensive

But if AGD are going to need to do a new tool to allow double trigger frames then it might be a good idea to look at changing the whole style to a .45 frame. (again probably more money than just modifying the design of the old tool and cutting a new double trigger tool, but worth it?...)

manike

[cphilip]

Good points Manike...but it probably has to happen some day.

[manike]

100% Agreed. I was just replying to your point about cost

So much is never as easy or as cheap as we would like to think

manike

[cphilip]

Yea...I was a fraid of that. But in keeping with Tom's stated philosophy of making Old Products "New" this is a big one for the lower end Mags.

[Gunga]

Originally posted by shartley
it is odd that AGD does not supply the $4.00 worth of parts WITH it.. even if the price went up $2.00 per frame AGD would still do alright, since I am sure they could buy the parts in bulk at a fraction of that. So they could either complete the process in-house OR simply provide all the parts WITH the frame and have the customers build it themselves.

Well, assuming AGD gets a bulk discount on parts, the price for having the parts installed into an Intelliframe from the factory would drive the price up way more than $2. There would be more costs involved than just purchasing the Radio Shack bits. There's the time & costs involved in receiving the parts, stocking the parts, quality control, and assembly. Additionally, if AGD makes three 'versions' - one with the parts installed, one with parts but uninstalled, and one with no parts at all, that'll complicate things a bit more. Also, the packaging would have to be redesigned a bit, and then printed.

While I'm not against the idea, I'm just wondering how many people would actually be willing to pay more (say $10-15 as a guess) for an already pricey trigger frame.

[Ityl]

For $120 the trigger frame should include the intellifeed stuff already in and hooked up imo.

And the Classic mag has needed a make over for many many years. I think the classic mag should include a CP barrel, double trigger, and bottomline setup. Then make one with the X-chamber. Get rid of the standard feed all together and only have powerfeed. Selling prices: $275 and $315 w/ x chamber. I bet many people would buy them. And get rid of the gray bodies.

[cphilip]

Right Gunga, But Shartleys figure was just if they put them into a "do it yourself" kit along with the frame. I was the one pushing the installed by AGD angle. All good points though. Sounds like a marketing survey doesn't it? I should hope there was some "wiggle" room in the Frames price to make it an attractive option. But it remains to be seen if its feasable to do all three. Just something to chew on.

And how about the non "intelli" Intelliframe to cut the cost down to a competitive 45 aluminum frame for the non-Intelli users? What the heck would you call it? The "Dumb IntelliFrame"? Sounds like a contest brewing eh?

[shartley]

Gunga

[cphilip]

In fact I would only do it one way. Installed. And develope the less milled non intelliframe. But as an option the parts kit if you had to go to two options.

However...Lets not detract here from the real important end of the market. The beginner Mag. I mean we already know Mag owners "become" loyal right? So how can they begin if they do not Start? The makeover of the Classic Mag Marker is the thing most likely to get someone to become a "Maggot" is a real key to the future. I know the high end is crutial too but then you have to give the starting kids something that will make them chose to pay $100 more and get a Mag. And then you got em hooked. 90 plus percent of em I bet.

I mean look at Kingman Spyders. You can buy all kinds of colors, styles, flashy stuff and rods popping out the back for no reason but all in all the darn thing is the same darn gun! Inside its the same old Spyder it always was!!! But it sells. Heck if you want to go crazy you can put a moving thing that looks like a back block on a Mag and it realy does nothing but move and half the kids out there will drool over it! I mean thats what Kingman did!

I am not suggesting going that far but a make over is needed to address the simple things to get the kids to consider them before buying a Spyder or something. Thats real important too. And I think its the 45 frame that will start that process. But what the heck do I know!

[Chris]

Carbon Fiber 45 frames

WGP is including carbon fiber 45 frames on their 2k2 cockers. As I recall, AGD and WGP used to use the same frames, why not rekindle that old relationship and buy the frames off of WGP? They have everything you need to make them work already I bet.

-Chris

[cphilip]

OK Chris...now you go tell the Boss!

[steveg]

Just looked at the intelliframe pictures again.
unfortunately, the cost savings in machine time
would be almost irrelevant.