These are just to make ya think or might say Hmmm to.Some are just good for what they say. If you find one or have one that makes you THINK or say Hmmm leave it here.
Rope a Dope:
The reason they are so easy to rip on is because when you pull the trigger 10 times in 1 second it shoots 25 times due to trigger bounce.
RRfireblade:
Extremely low bounce settings are far worse in my opinion and has become the standard in the industry.It should be unlawfull and prosecutable to manufacture and release a marker capable of adjusting a perameter beyond a certain point.
Some people MUST learn the hard way,if at all.
What upsets me most in regards to this debate is how easy it is for any idiot w/ an allen wrench to turn his marker into a completely illegal and unsafe product.
I would say redefine and enforce what constitutes a legal trigger set up.Then if your fast,YOUR fast.
50 cal:
It doesn't win me any friends sometimes, but I hate to see
n00bs pounded on.
fallout11:
But the low bounce settings and new jittery electronic triggers are getting ridiculous.
An example:
A friend was showing off his new Intimidator recently. I asked to hold it, and made nice comments about it. I gave it back to him, and he set it back down on the table. It fired. Yep. On it's own. Just by being set down on a table. Like some cheap imported pistol.
That's why barrel condoms/plugs are a MUST in goggles off areas. And also why I think some of the new crop of electros are the most dangerous things I've seen on the field in recent years.
DementedRabit:
That's all fine, but what about those "soft ear" systems where there'sa potential for a near-direct shot down someone's ear canal? We've all probably made people double over due to solid groin or throat shots. How many hits can someone actually take to the throat/adam's apple before the windpipe can swell shut?
I own a pretty fast marker(e-cocker) however if I manage to connect 10+ shots due to someone going through my lane wrong, at what point do I actually become legally liable for injuries sustained to another person? What about morally liable?
Maybe the best solution is to ban ANY kind of bare skin.
I love playing with and against fast markers, but I don't want to see multiple-shot injuries becoming commonplace. My only agenda is to keep the sport relatively safe for everyone.
Tyger:
I feel like I'm watching a car wreck from a helicopter. Ya see the bigger picture of destructon coming up, but there's nothing that can be done from up there.
If you're punishing me becasue you feel offended, that's malicious and intentional overshooting with intent to cause harm.
painball:
I mean, I can walk 13 with my angel, which is fast enough for any type of play.
Barfly:
Well if AGD came out with a mech mag that was walkable 13-15 bps I would be all over that like flies on stink.
Brophog:
So far, no one is trying to enforce anything.
Oh yeah, then somehow the ban was pulled so that Odyssey could get in the market.
I just told you how to enforce it. You make the rule and force manufacturers to abide by it. We've done it before.
We had a rule of 13 bps. Why does it no longer exist? Not due to enforcement, but due to the fact that the people who passed the rule overruled it.
I'm all for anything that ends this silly arms race, and adds a bit of integrity back into the game. I'm tired of painting a squirrel green and calling it a sheep. Its still a green squirrel, we just "act" like we see a sheep.
There is a reason these topics keep appearing, and that is because this is an issue that paintball will have to come to terms with.In only a couple of years we have jumped from 13 bps to over 20, while the game has remained relatively unchanged.
SlartyBartFast:
But seeing as the ASTM already has paintball related standards, it's only a matter of time until the insurance industry wakes up and demands it.
Consider that I'd classify tournament paintball as pretty boring games to watch. A few spurts and all, but for the most part just people sweating over their trigger rate.
taggtwo:
There is so, so much more to the game than speed ball
(aka spectator ball)
gtrsi:
You unlimted BPS guys need to ask a non-pb buddy at work,
over 21 please, about ROF and what they can be hit with. Now that wonderful expression they show will be the same seen in civil court from folks of all ages and colors once the first lawsuit and/or death occurs.
If the industry had any brains at all they would introduce "rookie"style tourny classes with some industry limits on thier rigs. More people playing the game more money, but most industry people are just to stupid to see past the current flock of "stunna's" at the local feild/tourney.
Brophog:
Now, tell me exactly why you need more than 15 bps. No one here is saying to take away semis or electros. We're saying that enough is enough. Don't buy into the hype that you need more than that to compete.
We have a lot of different people in this sport, with different likes and dislikes. For too long now we've thought too linearly in terms of styles, equipment, and fields. Its time to branch out. There's a giant pie out there waiting to be eaten. Meanwhile, we're
all fighting over the same slice.
bryceeden:
I would be the first to sign up for a tourney where only true semi was aloud(no trigger bounce) I actually do know people that can do 17+ bps on a ULT mag.
I'm with RRfireblade nothing but true semi, and let them be as fast as they can.
Meph:
Well guess what, with this back-turning mentallity eventually it'll be ignored and forgot about long enough to we will no longer be governing ourselves. And by then it will be too late to backpeddle and attempt to "Oh well I can settle with being capped at 14/15bps max" it'll be too late.
The problem we have here is that if we do not police ourselves that WE WILL be policed. This is not a "oh it might happen, but doubtful" no this is a major problem that will happen if nothing is done about it. And the turning-a-blind-eye method is not something I'm personally in favor of.
If you think you need more than 15bps buy some game not paint.
fallout11:
I've been playing for 17 years. Yes, that's right, before some of you were even a twinkle in your father's eye, and let me tell you straight: Paintball is on the road to destruction. It's time to step in, and make some rules.
Obviously safety is not a high enough priority for many.
That hurts paintball as a whole.
Paintball is a sport, and thus, by (my) definition of "sport", an affair of mutual integrity, honor, trust, and respect. Besides, it's just a game. What does it matter?
Lohman446:
I do beleive one shot, one pull should be enforced and NO SHOT BUFFERING - this gray area is going to be what causes problems legally.
spleefstylez:
Eventually new players wont even know what its like to shoot under 15BPS. I find that sad.
Quickling:
Now I see kids with shockers that light people up so bad they go off the field bleeding and crying. I am not joking I see way more blood now then ever before. Part of it is the smaller fields, but a lot comes from 10+ hits in a bunkering move
Jonesie:
As far as I'm concerned, 2 or 3 is expected. 20 I take exception to...
azzkikr:
but as for rec ball, where there are no 2000 plus dollars entry fees,i pick my shots and do not shot once i see the first break on them, besides i ussually use my pump on rec ball in any case, i still use discretion and good judgement.
later AZZKIKR
TheTramp:
I pretty calmly asked the ref to check and see if there were more than 3 broken balls on him. Guess what....there weren't. He was so padded that I had to shoot him at least 10 times to get those 3 breaks.
RT pRo AuToMaG:
If you shoot 20 bps, and someone sticks their head out for 1 sec, I can almost guarentee that more then one will hit them, and I can be almost 100% sure that if more then one hits the person, one of them will bounce.
If you spend 1000's of dollars on your gear, practice, and pay to play a tournament, maybe you will understand that people are not honest. They wipe, they play on, they wear pads.
BlueFish28:
i play to have fun, and if i can win and have fun at the same time,then great, but i've had just as much fun getting my butt handed to me on a silver platter.
Over shooting is completely unneccessary. its the attitude that says that its ok in tourneys that kinda gets on my nerves. because a lot of tourney players practice at the fields i play, and that attitude gets passed on to the other rec ballers.
so i suppose the best way to sum it up would be to say this: Play as if your integrety were on the line, even if it isn't. people dont like whiners, people dont like cheaters. so lets get rid of the mentality that this kind of behavior is acceptable.
SN0BL1ND:
I've never been in a tourny, and after reading about the "normal" styles of tourniment play (i.e. wiping, bonus balling, playing on...ect), I'm not sure I want to.
camilion705:
There is just too much potential for injurey with these electroseveryone has now.
DocRock:
As a 'big mover' within paintball you should be concerned about safety. The number one thing everyone in this game should be concerned about.
Rope a Dope:
The reason they are so easy to rip on is because when you pull the trigger 10 times in 1 second it shoots 25 times due to trigger bounce.
RRfireblade:
Extremely low bounce settings are far worse in my opinion and has become the standard in the industry.It should be unlawfull and prosecutable to manufacture and release a marker capable of adjusting a perameter beyond a certain point.
Some people MUST learn the hard way,if at all.
What upsets me most in regards to this debate is how easy it is for any idiot w/ an allen wrench to turn his marker into a completely illegal and unsafe product.
I would say redefine and enforce what constitutes a legal trigger set up.Then if your fast,YOUR fast.
50 cal:
It doesn't win me any friends sometimes, but I hate to see
n00bs pounded on.
fallout11:
But the low bounce settings and new jittery electronic triggers are getting ridiculous.
An example:
A friend was showing off his new Intimidator recently. I asked to hold it, and made nice comments about it. I gave it back to him, and he set it back down on the table. It fired. Yep. On it's own. Just by being set down on a table. Like some cheap imported pistol.
That's why barrel condoms/plugs are a MUST in goggles off areas. And also why I think some of the new crop of electros are the most dangerous things I've seen on the field in recent years.
DementedRabit:
That's all fine, but what about those "soft ear" systems where there'sa potential for a near-direct shot down someone's ear canal? We've all probably made people double over due to solid groin or throat shots. How many hits can someone actually take to the throat/adam's apple before the windpipe can swell shut?
I own a pretty fast marker(e-cocker) however if I manage to connect 10+ shots due to someone going through my lane wrong, at what point do I actually become legally liable for injuries sustained to another person? What about morally liable?
Maybe the best solution is to ban ANY kind of bare skin.
I love playing with and against fast markers, but I don't want to see multiple-shot injuries becoming commonplace. My only agenda is to keep the sport relatively safe for everyone.
Tyger:
I feel like I'm watching a car wreck from a helicopter. Ya see the bigger picture of destructon coming up, but there's nothing that can be done from up there.
If you're punishing me becasue you feel offended, that's malicious and intentional overshooting with intent to cause harm.
painball:
I mean, I can walk 13 with my angel, which is fast enough for any type of play.
Barfly:
Well if AGD came out with a mech mag that was walkable 13-15 bps I would be all over that like flies on stink.
Brophog:
So far, no one is trying to enforce anything.
Oh yeah, then somehow the ban was pulled so that Odyssey could get in the market.
I just told you how to enforce it. You make the rule and force manufacturers to abide by it. We've done it before.
We had a rule of 13 bps. Why does it no longer exist? Not due to enforcement, but due to the fact that the people who passed the rule overruled it.
I'm all for anything that ends this silly arms race, and adds a bit of integrity back into the game. I'm tired of painting a squirrel green and calling it a sheep. Its still a green squirrel, we just "act" like we see a sheep.
There is a reason these topics keep appearing, and that is because this is an issue that paintball will have to come to terms with.In only a couple of years we have jumped from 13 bps to over 20, while the game has remained relatively unchanged.
SlartyBartFast:
But seeing as the ASTM already has paintball related standards, it's only a matter of time until the insurance industry wakes up and demands it.
Consider that I'd classify tournament paintball as pretty boring games to watch. A few spurts and all, but for the most part just people sweating over their trigger rate.
taggtwo:
There is so, so much more to the game than speed ball
(aka spectator ball)
gtrsi:
You unlimted BPS guys need to ask a non-pb buddy at work,
over 21 please, about ROF and what they can be hit with. Now that wonderful expression they show will be the same seen in civil court from folks of all ages and colors once the first lawsuit and/or death occurs.
If the industry had any brains at all they would introduce "rookie"style tourny classes with some industry limits on thier rigs. More people playing the game more money, but most industry people are just to stupid to see past the current flock of "stunna's" at the local feild/tourney.
Brophog:
Now, tell me exactly why you need more than 15 bps. No one here is saying to take away semis or electros. We're saying that enough is enough. Don't buy into the hype that you need more than that to compete.
We have a lot of different people in this sport, with different likes and dislikes. For too long now we've thought too linearly in terms of styles, equipment, and fields. Its time to branch out. There's a giant pie out there waiting to be eaten. Meanwhile, we're
all fighting over the same slice.
bryceeden:
I would be the first to sign up for a tourney where only true semi was aloud(no trigger bounce) I actually do know people that can do 17+ bps on a ULT mag.
I'm with RRfireblade nothing but true semi, and let them be as fast as they can.
Meph:
Well guess what, with this back-turning mentallity eventually it'll be ignored and forgot about long enough to we will no longer be governing ourselves. And by then it will be too late to backpeddle and attempt to "Oh well I can settle with being capped at 14/15bps max" it'll be too late.
The problem we have here is that if we do not police ourselves that WE WILL be policed. This is not a "oh it might happen, but doubtful" no this is a major problem that will happen if nothing is done about it. And the turning-a-blind-eye method is not something I'm personally in favor of.
If you think you need more than 15bps buy some game not paint.
fallout11:
I've been playing for 17 years. Yes, that's right, before some of you were even a twinkle in your father's eye, and let me tell you straight: Paintball is on the road to destruction. It's time to step in, and make some rules.
Obviously safety is not a high enough priority for many.
That hurts paintball as a whole.
Paintball is a sport, and thus, by (my) definition of "sport", an affair of mutual integrity, honor, trust, and respect. Besides, it's just a game. What does it matter?
Lohman446:
I do beleive one shot, one pull should be enforced and NO SHOT BUFFERING - this gray area is going to be what causes problems legally.
spleefstylez:
Eventually new players wont even know what its like to shoot under 15BPS. I find that sad.
Quickling:
Now I see kids with shockers that light people up so bad they go off the field bleeding and crying. I am not joking I see way more blood now then ever before. Part of it is the smaller fields, but a lot comes from 10+ hits in a bunkering move
Jonesie:
As far as I'm concerned, 2 or 3 is expected. 20 I take exception to...
azzkikr:
but as for rec ball, where there are no 2000 plus dollars entry fees,i pick my shots and do not shot once i see the first break on them, besides i ussually use my pump on rec ball in any case, i still use discretion and good judgement.
later AZZKIKR
TheTramp:
I pretty calmly asked the ref to check and see if there were more than 3 broken balls on him. Guess what....there weren't. He was so padded that I had to shoot him at least 10 times to get those 3 breaks.
RT pRo AuToMaG:
If you shoot 20 bps, and someone sticks their head out for 1 sec, I can almost guarentee that more then one will hit them, and I can be almost 100% sure that if more then one hits the person, one of them will bounce.
If you spend 1000's of dollars on your gear, practice, and pay to play a tournament, maybe you will understand that people are not honest. They wipe, they play on, they wear pads.
BlueFish28:
i play to have fun, and if i can win and have fun at the same time,then great, but i've had just as much fun getting my butt handed to me on a silver platter.
Over shooting is completely unneccessary. its the attitude that says that its ok in tourneys that kinda gets on my nerves. because a lot of tourney players practice at the fields i play, and that attitude gets passed on to the other rec ballers.
so i suppose the best way to sum it up would be to say this: Play as if your integrety were on the line, even if it isn't. people dont like whiners, people dont like cheaters. so lets get rid of the mentality that this kind of behavior is acceptable.
SN0BL1ND:
I've never been in a tourny, and after reading about the "normal" styles of tourniment play (i.e. wiping, bonus balling, playing on...ect), I'm not sure I want to.
camilion705:
There is just too much potential for injurey with these electroseveryone has now.
DocRock:
As a 'big mover' within paintball you should be concerned about safety. The number one thing everyone in this game should be concerned about.
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