**AO Research Team Test This Please**

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  • AGD
    The man from AGD

    • Oct 2000
    • 5916

    #1

    **AO Research Team Test This Please**

    AO/R&D

    Research is continuing into ball breakage reduction modifications. We now are at the point where we understand the problem and are testing various methods to reduce it. As is often the case in test runs not all the data comes out the same. Right now we have too few data points to get a clear handle on the magnitude of the improvements.

    One of the things that is absolutely clear is that a sharp corner on the front edge of the bolt impacts the ball waiting to fall into the breach next and cracks it. For identification we call this the "ball waiting". The damaged ball will sometimes, but not all the time, blow up down the barrel.

    The two things we can do to reduce this problem is slow down the bolt and remove the sharp corner. Slowing the bolt requires a bunch of new parts BUT rounding the edge of the bolt you can do at home.

    Before you jump to the pic I want to warn you that if you screw up your bolt we are NOT going to replace it for free. If someone does screw one up we will sell you another close to wholesale for the next couple weeks if you trade yours in.

    The bolts from the factory all have slightly different sharpness to the front edge. We didn't know until recently how important this is. Actually we still don't know and that's why we are asking you to test it. We think this is why some people have breakage problems and others don't.

    The fix is simple, take a fine toothed file or sandpaper and put a SMALL radius on the front outside edge of your bolt. NOT THE EDGE THAT THE SEAR CATCHES!! Its the end of the bolt that contacts the paintball ok? Before you do anything pull out a nickel from your pocket and feel the edge. We will call the nickel's edge a "5" on a 1-10 scale. Feel the edge on your bolt BEFORE you sand it and rate it from 1-10 compared to the nickel at 5. Mark this down on your data sheet. A 10 means it's much sharper than the nickel.

    Now take some sandpaper or a fine file and carefully radius the front edge of your bolt and make it look like the one in the picture. Notice that there are no sharp edges left, it just rounds over nicely. The rounded edge does not have to be very big. It's important not to over do it because filing too far back on the bolt will cause more blow back. You want to just take off the sharp edge. Doing it too little should still help a lot so don't go overboard.

    Now I want you to go out and play. Do an official bounce test and write down the numbers on the data sheet. This must be done just before you go out to play at the field. Tests from the day before or the day after don't count. If there is no place to bounce test it at your field just say so, it's ok.

    During play take note of how many BARREL breaks you get all day and how much paint you shot. Chops don't count, that's a different problem. Barrel breaks leave the breach and feed tube clean and only have paint in the barrel. Lastly report the data back here and comment on if you broke more or less paint than usual.

    A lot is riding on this test because it will determine how much more effort we put into the research. More effort means more wait time for the new mods to come out and for you all to benefit.

    Once again I want to thank you all for helping with this I really REALLY appreciate it!

    All of us (working our brains out) at,

    AGD
    Last edited by AGD; 04-16-2002, 09:25 AM.
    sigpic
  • AGD
    The man from AGD

    • Oct 2000
    • 5916

    #2
    TEMPLATE FOR DATA SHEET

    Daytime temp =
    Weather conditions =

    Bounce Test all numbers=

    Edge rating prior to sanding=

    Total paint shot=
    Total barrel breaks=

    Better than usual? =

    Comments:
    sigpic

    Comment

    • RobAGD
      Cantankerous Administrator

      • Oct 2000
      • 2030

      #3
      Orginally posted by BlackVCG -

      For those of us "tool-inclined" you can put the bolt in an 11/16" collet and chuck it in a lathe. Spin it and move a piece of 300-500 grit aluminum oxide paper in an arc motion and you'll have a nice uniform round on the end of the bolt.
      Serving AGD customers since 93, wishing I could beat some common since into some of them about 5 hrs later.

      Comment

      • RobAGD
        Cantankerous Administrator

        • Oct 2000
        • 2030

        #4
        Orginally posted by ProjectMag -

        Question about the edge scale from 1-10 with a nickel's edge being 5. Which end of the scale means it has more of an edge?? Just trying to clarify some things.
        Serving AGD customers since 93, wishing I could beat some common since into some of them about 5 hrs later.

        Comment

        • AGD
          The man from AGD

          • Oct 2000
          • 5916

          #5
          If you don't have a problem with breaks please compare the bolt edge with the nickel and give us a number value for the bolt's sharpness.

          Thanks

          AGD
          sigpic

          Comment

          • AGD
            The man from AGD

            • Oct 2000
            • 5916

            #6
            A 10 means it's really sharp, sorry I will edit the post.

            AGD
            sigpic

            Comment

            • RobAGD
              Cantankerous Administrator

              • Oct 2000
              • 2030

              #7
              orginally popst by - TheBigRaguPB4L

              Wouldn't rounding the inside of the bolt edge be more effective? Isn't that the real part of the bolt that hits the paint?
              Serving AGD customers since 93, wishing I could beat some common since into some of them about 5 hrs later.

              Comment

              • RobAGD
                Cantankerous Administrator

                • Oct 2000
                • 2030

                #8
                orginally post by - Manuel_FZR

                I have really no Problem with breaks down the barrel (with a good barrel/paint match). I think in 10000round I have one. I use the original (short) hardnose bolt, and a Venom hardnose Thunderbolt - both are nearly the same. The edges of both are quiet round - much rounder than a nickel (something like a 3 or 2 for the original and a 4 for the Venom)
                The only problem with breaks are:
                1. choping (ok - user error)
                2. breaking in the breach. when the bolt hits the ball, it breaks directly in the breach - not in the feed like with cops!
                If this two will be eliminated (for the choping the ACE will help - but for No.2 ???), the perfect paintball-gun is born
                Serving AGD customers since 93, wishing I could beat some common since into some of them about 5 hrs later.

                Comment

                • RobAGD
                  Cantankerous Administrator

                  • Oct 2000
                  • 2030

                  #9
                  orginallyposted by cphilip -

                  I think Tom is referring to the Ball that is about to (or waiting to) enter the breach not the one already in there as to the one getting cut or damaged by the outdside edge of the bolt. See?
                  Serving AGD customers since 93, wishing I could beat some common since into some of them about 5 hrs later.

                  Comment

                  • IWannaRiot979
                    ::TeamMint::
                    • Aug 2001
                    • 380

                    #10
                    Ok I may have missed something, but just to clarify: Is this a problem related only to SS longnose bolts? Or are there other bolts this experiment should be done on? Thanks.

                    -Riot
                    Insert Sig Pic Here
                    Team Mint - 3man phenom.
                    Rockin' The CrapPulse!
                    Contact Team Mint

                    Impulse Status - Finished! - ... for the moment

                    Comment

                    • BlackVCG
                      Grubby Owner

                      • Oct 2000
                      • 4956

                      #11
                      ALL Mag bolts NEED rounds on the end as shown in the pic!!!
                      My Feedback

                      Comment

                      • Medusa RTD
                        Registered User
                        • Dec 2001
                        • 18

                        #12
                        Daytime temp = about 80
                        Weather conditions = Sunny, humid
                        Total paint shot= 2000
                        Total barrel breaks= 0

                        I don't have any bounce test numbers because these were the conditions at a game I played the weekend befor you posted this.

                        Comments: My Supper Bolt (w/ added fomie) has about a sharpness of about 8 on your scale. I don't plan on sanding this because I rarely have barrel breaks.

                        Comment

                        • RT_Luver
                          Co-Official AO Penguin
                          • Jan 2002
                          • 1827

                          #13
                          Should we do this to the superbolt w/ foamies?
                          Black Warp Left E-mag #EM00163
                          emagnum board
                          14in freak
                          12v smoke warp w/ interlink
                          drilled 12v revy w/ JMJ impeller and WAS turbo rev board
                          shocktech drop
                          AGD flatline dovetail adaptor
                          68 3000 flatline

                          ***soon to be***
                          emagnum body rail
                          black powder coat
                          custom grips from Frymarker

                          Comment

                          • BowlesRacing
                            Registered User
                            • Apr 2002
                            • 7

                            #14
                            On a long nose bolt mine currently looks like the difference between the two bolts in the picture (3?). I am not going to file down the edge because i do not experience a signifigant number of breaks (maybe 1 per case). I usually shoot Anarchy or other premium paint.

                            Hope this helps.
                            -Brad

                            Comment

                            • Telefragged
                              Terrified Of His Own Mind
                              • Jan 2002
                              • 457

                              #15
                              I noticed a post about this yesterday here on the boards. Sounds like an interesting and quite possibly an effective fix for this kind of problem. I myself am eagerly awaiting the results.

                              BTW, I think its funny how Tom talked about comparing the sharpness of a nickel to the bolt, and then posted a pic of the bolts and a quarter.

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