Semi-formal Regulator Testing

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  • nerobro
    Registered User
    • Oct 2001
    • 923

    #1

    Semi-formal Regulator Testing

    Friday night when the tests were done, tom took us stragglers to see something really cool. well that's the impression I got. :-) He showed us a dark superman angel, which was a little cut up, and rigged so you could use the pressure sensors from the gun dyno on it.

    There was one hose tapped into the side of the valve chamber, and then they had a volumizer that also had a fitting on it so you could test the LPR's preformance.

    Tom showed use the preformance of the retrovalve. It's everything it's cracked up to be. And then the angel was hooked up and we got to see the graphs of it's preformance..... the angels' reg, even after 10 secconds hadn't fully recovered to it's set pressure.

    This I found hard to believe. Very hard to believe. And if you check my seccond post on AO.. You'll see I voiced my oppinon on such matters.

    Later that evening, while sitting around the AGd offices. We discussed what that angel had done, and it came up that we'd like to see another angel tested. Saturday night, tom had another 2 angels on hand for testing. We used a slightly less sophisticated setup to test the govinar's recharge time. But the results appeared to be the same on all three angels that were tested. The results were scary. Basicly you can draw the conclusion that the regs that come on angels.. SUCK.

    Just to make sure the whole industry wasn't lame, we hualled in my cocker with it's palmers stabilizer on it. And put the stab on the angel to see what it would do. the LPR on the angel was still a very very poor preformer. but the recharge time on the valve chamber was very much better. We then tested it on my cocker, and got the same results.

    We currently have data on 4 regs at the moment. the Govinair, palmers stabilizer, the automag's reg, and the RT's reg. We didn't see data on the automag's reg that night, but we did see that from the govinair, stab, and rt..

    The Stab recharged most of the way in .044 secconds.. fast enough that we saw a funny spike in the recharge. We aren't sure where that came from, but it could be air heating, or it could be some other part of the regs design. either way the stab recharged VERY quickly.

    We saw the rt. which instead of the normal recharge curve, you see a near vertical line untill the reg charges up to full pressure. and then you see it drop off a little as the air cools.

    And we saw the govinair, which took amazingly long to recharge to the same level as the stab. If tom still has that reg around, I'd like to know how long it actually took for it to get to within 20psi of fully recharged.

    Given the results from this informal testing.. I'd love to see a RT based inline reg...
    To be an AGD supporter, one cannot be an AGD bigot. -Nero

    Truth is a complex thing. One must govern by simplicity. -M. Mercier, special counsel to his Majesty for domestic matters. The Brotherhood of the Wolf

    "You can't outrun Death forever, but you can make the bastard work for it."

  • CRySyS
    Monkey Sale!
    • Oct 2000
    • 108

    #2
    I'm inspired...

    How likely is an inline RT reg AGD? It would be simple to make and it would give you a use for any old RT reg bodies you have laying around. Just make a top piece to screw into like this...



    Its no tech drawing or anything, I just whipped it up with MSPaint a few minutes ago but the idea it sound. At least I think it'll work that way...

    Comment

    • nerobro
      Registered User
      • Oct 2001
      • 923

      #3
      I'll be first in line for one. though now I'm really curious on the internal design of palmers reg. I'd also like to see the preformance of my maxflow.. pms minireg 1... and a few other regs on the market.
      To be an AGD supporter, one cannot be an AGD bigot. -Nero

      Truth is a complex thing. One must govern by simplicity. -M. Mercier, special counsel to his Majesty for domestic matters. The Brotherhood of the Wolf

      "You can't outrun Death forever, but you can make the bastard work for it."

      Comment

      • Vegeta
        Moderator? Mob Boss.
        • Oct 2001
        • 1050

        #4
        Heres my idea- ill model it in 3D Studio later. i guess u could call it the AGD Argonomic regulator.
        -Vegeta
        View my DevArt gallery Here

        Comment

        • Vegeta
          Moderator? Mob Boss.
          • Oct 2001
          • 1050

          #5
          Double output:
          -Vegeta
          View my DevArt gallery Here

          Comment

          • CRySyS
            Monkey Sale!
            • Oct 2000
            • 108

            #6
            well...

            Wouldn't that be double input? This would be double output...

            Comment

            • Vegeta
              Moderator? Mob Boss.
              • Oct 2001
              • 1050

              #7
              Yea I should have connected htat small tube to the 2nd output, and not had it connected to the reg screw.
              -Vegeta
              View my DevArt gallery Here

              Comment

              • hardr0ck68
                I miss Tom
                • Oct 2001
                • 783

                #8
                yeah i was gonna order a max-flow untill i heard about this....now im goin flatline. I think tom should put every reg for paintball on this dyno and lets see what performs and what is junk. finally force paintball producers to make quality products. i would buy a agd inline reg in a sec for my non mag guns. couldent they use the second air line (the one that ushally goes to the on off valve) for a low presure reg?
                Tom was the last of a now extinct breed, a breed of players who build a community, a breed of owners who gave to the sport never taking more than what they deserved. I hope to see you at the feild again some day....

                Comment

                • CRySyS
                  Monkey Sale!
                  • Oct 2000
                  • 108

                  #9
                  One thing that does concern me...

                  is how the reg will react in its new environment. In an RT it has to fill a relatively small chamber directly in front of it. As an inline it will have to fill any number of guns as well as the air line going to the gun. Thats going to mean a larger chamber to fill and at a much farther distance. Is it going to try to overpressure the gun like a poorly tuned max-flow can. Will it need a big honking relief valve like the max-flow or will it react fast enough to prevent too much pressure from building up before it snaps shut. Definitely something I'd like to see tested.

                  So come on Tom, were doing your R&D here for you, just build it!

                  Comment

                  • nerobro
                    Registered User
                    • Oct 2001
                    • 923

                    #10
                    You can place a restriction in the regs output. Remember, in theroy so long as the gun is more efficant than an automag, it will be using less gas, so there will be less heating. I think that the heating/overpressure effects are something we can live with or tune around. Just like when dealing with an RT. At least if we don't want to sacrifice the benifits of the RT reg... Because as we discussed at the supertour, tom can restrict the recharge speed of the reg, you just need to put in a really tiny hole in the flow path ;-) Though as he said then as well... people will just take out the drills and drill out that restriction. Hmm.... Replacable inserts with different sized holes for tuning..... maybe we could use the jets from carberuators (at least then the jets would be common)
                    To be an AGD supporter, one cannot be an AGD bigot. -Nero

                    Truth is a complex thing. One must govern by simplicity. -M. Mercier, special counsel to his Majesty for domestic matters. The Brotherhood of the Wolf

                    "You can't outrun Death forever, but you can make the bastard work for it."

                    Comment

                    • paintball8869
                      Registered User
                      • Nov 2000
                      • 483

                      #11
                      there already is an automag vertical regulator. It's called the ANS GENX2 REGULATOR. Same exact design as the mag's regulator. Also, Air America has something that is almost exactly the same as the the GENX2 reg, just with slightly different design. The Air America reg (can't remember what the name was) has 8 holes inside where you can unscrew it and the ANS one has the 2 half moon shapes.

                      Comment

                      • nerobro
                        Registered User
                        • Oct 2001
                        • 923

                        #12
                        Close but not quite. ANS, violator, unireg, black ice, and all sorts of regs are all near direct copies of the reg in the AIR. What we are talking about here is the RT valve. It's very different from the AIR's reg.. Whereas the AIR's reg sees dropoff in teh 10-12bps range ( this is an IIRC... if tom can chime in.. or anyone who's seen the data ) Where the RT is good all the way up to 26bps... What we're rooting for is a RT valve in a inline reg setup ;-)
                        To be an AGD supporter, one cannot be an AGD bigot. -Nero

                        Truth is a complex thing. One must govern by simplicity. -M. Mercier, special counsel to his Majesty for domestic matters. The Brotherhood of the Wolf

                        "You can't outrun Death forever, but you can make the bastard work for it."

                        Comment

                        • BlackVCG
                          Grubby Owner

                          • Oct 2000
                          • 4956

                          #13
                          AIR valve in testing shows signs of drop off at 6bps. At 13bps there's about 10fps drop off. Watch videos of the AIR valve going FA around 13-16bps and you can barely notice the drop off.
                          My Feedback

                          Comment

                          • nerobro
                            Registered User
                            • Oct 2001
                            • 923

                            #14
                            Where will I catch video of that? The only video I know of of mags shooting that fast are the oddessypaintball halo videos. and those are of a retromag and an e-mag.
                            To be an AGD supporter, one cannot be an AGD bigot. -Nero

                            Truth is a complex thing. One must govern by simplicity. -M. Mercier, special counsel to his Majesty for domestic matters. The Brotherhood of the Wolf

                            "You can't outrun Death forever, but you can make the bastard work for it."

                            Comment

                            • BlackVCG
                              Grubby Owner

                              • Oct 2000
                              • 4956

                              #15
                              Actually, the video of the Hyperframe Mag on Odyssey's site is a Mag with a standard AIR valve.
                              My Feedback

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