Most overpriced gun

**POOLDUDE24** · 07-17-2002, 10:29 PM

I have to say the autocoker is way overpriced and in my opnion your just paying for the name. I seen a dude who shelled out 3500 for a autocoker system that could be adjusted w/ a laptop computer the second he went out in the course his marker screw up (hmm just the type of guy you want on a team) and he was taken out 20 sec. in the match Theres to much that can go wrong with an autocoker. Me I stick to my RT pro its easy to maintane and always reliable and hasn't given me any problems.

**magsRus** · 07-22-2002, 08:57 AM

automags are still over priced till this day...for the amount of money you can get a p/f mag for or a minimag which is 300 dollars you can get a good electronic gun for that amount..I suggest they drop minis and automags prices even further

**sniper1rfa** · 07-23-2002, 01:13 PM

this is easy, the talon. it is worth nothing and therefore an undefined percentage overpriced. HA!

angelKiller16 · 07-29-2002, 08:20 PM

MagsRus, i would like to disagree with you. Of all the pbguns out thier the mags are one of the best deals. Them along with a stock impulse. You can get a top of the line tourney gun with retro valve, awsome barrel, and new frame for about or under 600! what other gun offers that.
PS. The mag is not one of those electro, 300$, wanabe, made in Korea, "tourney" guns either

**sanku X** · 07-29-2002, 09:46 PM

I have worked in paintball stores for nearly ten years, and this conversation comes up more than just about any other. What is worth the money, and what gun is better than what other gun...

Actually, the "low pressure guns have better range" debate makes me want to hurl even more...

My fellow paintballers, when it comes right down to it...who cares???

If you tell a single mother with no job, who is fighting to be able to feed her two kids that you are going to spend just $40 on a case of paint, let alone $900 on an eMag, or whatever, she will tell you it's not worth it.

Most of our parents, and spouses think Paintball is not worth the money we spend. But I say again...who cares???

I love the sport of Paintball.
I love the game of Paintball.
I love running up with my KP rifle, and bunkering some mark cause he thought I was crazy to go on the field with a stock gun.
I love zippin through my 12v Rev, as I stroke away at my Palmer Houndstooth, showing the non-believers why I have an agitating hopper on a pump gun.
I love sticking tight to the snake on a Sup' Air field, while my Timmy spits 14 bps down field at some fool who thought he could make that move up MY tape!

And now, I can't wait to get my hands on my Lvl 10 kit, so I can dig out my beloved Mag, and hit the field like in the old days.

CA or 12 gram, Auto trigger, or single shot, PMI 3 or 68 Special, Mag or Cocker, Tippmann or Spyder, Cocker or Shocker, Angel or Bushmaster, Timmy or Impulse, Emag or eMatrix. Warpfeed or Halo...

Whatever you shoot, however you shoot it, however much you paid, who cares???

Use whatever you like, just be happy with it and leave the other guy alone about what he is playing with. Just be glad he is playing. Be glad that we all get to play a game as over the top as PAINTBALL!!!

(No, I won't explain what CA means...)

**Jerhew** · 07-29-2002, 11:20 PM

good answer...

you really can't argue with that one bit
why argue anyway?
IMO we should end this thread on that note.

**[M@g_D@ddy]** · 07-29-2002, 11:57 PM

sanku, amen. that's the best answer i've heard yet

**mags4all** · 08-12-2002, 01:39 PM

i dont care what gun you have if you cant run or dont have a steady hand you could have the best gun in the world nd still suck. thats my opinion

**[M@g_D@ddy]** · 08-12-2002, 07:32 PM

well, no u don't have to run, just kinda, er, hustle, beat a hasty path.
the steady hand part is good. also, good attitude.
yea, i love kids who go out w/ angels,
and they're like, this 'gun sucks,
i shoulda got u out.
if u have the money, and u have an angel, timmy etc...and ur not ignorant, e.g. (i'm better than u cuz...., or i spent $2k, on mine.... this 'gun sucks cuz i have the trigger so short it goes off when i blow on it and i shot myself in the foot)
that is ignorant
on the other hand, if u have high end 'gun, i'm not gonna say, good lord, ur gun cost a lot and ur young. therefore ur stupid.
if u have a question, whether it's a newbie one, or a hard, technical question, i'm not gonna hate on u lol.

**Thordic** · 08-13-2002, 10:54 AM

Originally posted by MiniMagger2002
oops sorry i was just thinking the mainstream guns

More people use Excal's than Bushy's or Timmy's, according to a recent survey by PB2X

**Cerebrus** · 08-17-2002, 08:56 AM

but am glad that noone has voted for it. As for the bushy vs angel thing i have shot both and both work well. However the angel is superior in tolerences. I remember when the bushy first came out there were people posting threads about how there breaches were machined so small that paint couldn't even fit. Now I'm not saying that this is normal and I believe that the bushies have come a long way since there introduction.

**paintbattler** · 08-17-2002, 01:35 PM

Originally posted by petefol
hehe you left out mags

haha they arent expensive at all

**Skweegi** · 08-18-2002, 01:03 PM

Thats a tossup between the
Entity Matrix for $1400

and the

Chris Lasoya IR3 (CLASS IR3) for $1900

The Entity matrix comes with some horrendous ugly milling of a squid! and out of the box upgrade parts that can be bought for under $200. Buy a stock matrix for $700 and spend the $200 yourself and you don't have to look at a goddamn squid everyday and save $500.

The CLASS IR3 is a stock IR3 with a the solenoid area milling expanded and made more boring and pedestrian than stock milling. Then they add......drumroll please...........a VOLUMIZER!!! (that does absolutely nothing. Yeah thats worth an extra $500. The only thing of substance is the lifetime warranty from warped sportz. Before you APG readers jump on me for all the "personal tuning" that is involved in that gun. Realize that with a $5 set of allen wrenches you too can set the trigger pull at home in under 10minutes. Beyond that, nothing.

I guess the CLASS IR3 takes my vote.

**TITAN** · 08-18-2002, 01:10 PM

thats because warped sportz rips off everyone with theyre products and the amazing thing is people pay it... + warps warrenty sucks they dont even cover parts... only labor so if something goes wrong you have to pay for whatever part is messed up

**WonTon** · 08-19-2002, 12:07 AM

Originally posted by minimag187
All autocockers have all these upgrades that do squat, and the stores try to sell autocockers because stupid people always wanna upgrade them. A stock autococker is almost as good as you can get them.

This is crazy, just crazy...

Stock autococker compared to, say, Works...

Barrel
Stock cocker barrel: is a piece of aluminum with a whole in it and threads on one end

Works Barrel: OTP One-piece ported barrel, not bad

Feed Neck
Stock: Right feed, needs elbow
Works: CCM adjustable Angel threaded Vert Feed

Pnuematics
Stock: Stock (nuff sed, I don't care if the reg or 3 way is the same as the STO just unpolished...)
Works: MacDev Sonic Reg, STO ram, Bullet 3 way, ultra smooth with adjustable pnuematic pressure capability

Milling/Ano
Stock: Slot here and there, flat black
Works: Won't even describe it, uncountable colors (including flat black if thaz your thing)

Internals
Stock: Stock
Works: LP internals, drilled out for LP operation (AKA LMP bodies) Nelson velocity kit

Bolt
Stock: Stock, not bad if you polish it, but hey, it doesn't come polished
Works: Open Faced Delrin Works bolt (HELL YEAH)

Gripframe
Stock: Polycarbonate (strong plastic) non .45 frame
Works: .45 butter smooth slide or Works Hinge

Trigger Plate
Stock: piece of metal
Works: milled to the BONE (that's right)

What does it add up to? Stock cockers, no matter how much you put on them, I will admit, even my STO cocker which is tricked, will ALWAYS feel mechanical in comparison to the silk of a Works or Evolution cocker or other... you CAN'T compare stock to Works...

I've read a LOT of crazy stuff on this thread (yeah, that whole thing about bushy to angel... bushy can't COMPARE) but this just stuck in my head from the what? 3rd reply?

btw Titan:
I think you're the $hit because you admitted bushys suck and you have the link to yours for sale right under it (thumbs up)... Way to keep your head in line and the guys who obviously have never shot angels head's straight!

Btw, bushy's have MAD trigger side-play...

**chris99506** · 08-22-2002, 12:31 PM

i think that the A-5 is the most overpriced gun, it's like 270 or 300 you could get a cocker for not much more, not that i like cockers but they are still better than any tippmann, and all the A-5 is, is a tippman 98 with a detatchable gripframe and it has a cyclone feed, big deal it's still a piece of crap they should pay the user to shoot it

**Rambozo** · 08-22-2002, 01:04 PM

I dont think the tippmanns are pieces of crap. And I think that cyclone feed is a nice feature. I would buy one. And you have options for reactive triggers and what not on the tippmanns. To me the new a5 looks to be a bit more solid than the m98. Tippmanns are good entry level guns. Shure there not automags, but they are decent. However a $300+ price tag is a bit steap.

**SyntaxError** · 08-22-2002, 05:15 PM

Originally posted by Skweegi

The CLASS IR3 is a stock IR3 with a the solenoid area milling expanded and made more boring and pedestrian than stock milling. Then they add......drumroll please...........a VOLUMIZER!!! (that does absolutely nothing. Yeah thats worth an extra $500.

not to mention that that $500 volumizer looks like the um....hmm...male genetalia heehee

**chris99506** · 08-22-2002, 06:27 PM

the ir3 is a verry nice gun but for the price i would rather have my dark angel any day and yes tippmanns suck i have had 3 and i hated them all, i would even rather shoot a spyder compact, than a piece of crap plastic A-5 and don't give me any of that "high density polimer" crap either.

**Jerhew** · 08-22-2002, 06:53 PM

well i have to say in tippman's defense....
when i started out, my first gun was a tippman pro lite...
i beat the absolute crap out of that gun..
never took care of it.. threw it around...
ax-handled it into a tree stump in anger...
basically if i saw someone today who treated any marker as poorly as i treated my pro lite, i'd have to say something to them...
and ya know what...
it still works.
sure the trigger pull is gross, the accuracy is questionable and the fps consistancy is pretty deplorable
but for my first gun, it was perfect.

as far as most overpriced...
look
people wouldn't continue to buy a gun if it was wrongfully overpriced...if it was expensive and completely sucked, it wouldn't last....capitalism...supply and demand...

there isn't much sense arguing
everyone has their opinions...it's like telling a ford guy chevy's are better... it's nonsense.

**Duke Henry** · 08-22-2002, 06:53 PM

Originally posted by chris99506
i think that the A-5 is the most overpriced gun, it's like 270 or 300 you could get a cocker for not much more, not that i like cockers but they are still better than any tippmann, and all the A-5 is, is a tippman 98 with a detatchable gripframe and it has a cyclone feed, big deal it's still a piece of crap they should pay the user to shoot it

Let's see, take a Model 98 at $120, and add a HALO-B for $150. That gives you what? $270? Considering the A5 RT has pushed past 20 BPS, I think that is a fair comparison. Also, no batteries.

Add FAST stripping time, and this gun is not THAT overpriced.

**chris99506** · 08-22-2002, 09:43 PM

and it is made out of plastic and don't give me that "it can be driven over with a truck because it is made out of high density polymer" because i had a sting ray that was made out of plastic and it was advertised that you could run it over with a truck and you know what i did? i drove over it with my ford f-150 and it didn't break but the first time i dropped it on the street a week later on accident it cracked. if i'm going to buy a gun for $270 it better be made out of metal not out of a recycled Burger King toy

**Rambozo** · 08-23-2002, 10:23 AM

I actually wasnt aware the A-5 was constructed from polymers. I thought it was aluminum.

I have to agree. Im not too keen on plastics. But then a multitude of firearms use polymers. So it probably isnt really that bad. But It sure doesnt feel quite as solid.

**Duke Henry** · 08-23-2002, 04:20 PM

The trigger frame is made of a high density plastic. Apparently, the same plastic that Glocks are made of or something. Don't quote me on that, I would have to check into it.

Spray Painter · 09-04-2002, 09:21 PM

my first gun was a pro/carbine and i never had to replace anything in it because nothing wore out. the accuacy and consistancy were questionable. it was a very reliable gun for a noob(me) who didn't know anything about paintball at the time.

**angelKiller16** · 09-05-2002, 02:58 PM

the thing wih the A5 is who needs a HALO like loader on a tippmann anyway. The thing is a waste of money. tier are so many better markers out thier you could buy for a few dollars more. Not to mention the thing looks like a German tactical assualt gun!

Second, about te Chris LaSoya Angel. People have been askink, " what next a 2000$ marker?". Well here it is! Some pro decided he'll make some extra cash and get a gun endorsement. Of course people will buy it because 1 It's Chris's signiture gun 2 Thier limited edition and 3 peole just like to brag that they have expensive markers. This thing is going for $1950 and made out of ALUMINUM! I could buy 3 of he most kickin mags and still have $150 to go play in a tourney.

So in conclusion, the A-5 is overriced because it is made of plastic, looks like a assult rifle and know one with a tipman needs the assistance of the loader it has, just buy a 12vlt. And the Chriss LaySoya angel is now the first $2000 marker. Wich is the biggest waste of money in all of sport, not to mention just paintball.

**k9hero** · 09-07-2002, 06:07 PM

OMG just look at the thing, espesily mine. mines black!

**Evil Pepe** · 09-08-2002, 08:07 PM

hmmm a new wal-mart special.scratch that.maybe a BigLots special

**Meph** · 09-14-2002, 09:04 AM

I would like to step up and shed some light on this here, since I am the Tippmann guy. Of course I'm biased when it comes to Tippmanns, sue me.

The A-5 made of plastic? Well, before you make a comment, please know what you're talking about. The entire body is aluminum, hammer, sear, and valve as well. And a few other parts. The plastic parts are the grip frame and Cyclone. But then again, all hoppers are plastic, aren't they? So why complain about a plastic loader now?
Stock autocockers don't even have a metal trigger frame, look at them! Feel them! And you make a comparison about them, yet bash the A-5? Alright, if you say so.

Now the A-5 is not for everybody. For that reason right there, the cyclone. But hey, it's a force feed system that was in development for 3 years, before the Halo was even around. So after all the time, energy, money, and cast moldings were made it was probably just a bit late to say "Hmmm, maybe we should just use an elbow instead?" Besides, the Cyclone actually lowers your hopper profile 2 inches lower than a standard hopper! So it's better than most hoppers in that there's no batteries, it makes your profile lower, and it's consistent with each and every shot eliminating ball breaks or misfeeds.

Now is it overpriced? You're talking about a marker that just hit the market! Wait for a few months, after the holiday season. The price will come down. You'll be seeing them for 250 at a lot of places come January and February. Even less at other.
And considering you're right now paying 300 for both a marker AND force feed loader, I don't think it's really THAT overpriced even as it is right now. Good luck getting a cocker and Halo B for 300 bucks!

But of course, overprices is just a personal opinion. There's no real facts or anything to back this up. What's overpriced for one person is reasonably priced for another person.

Though I did expect a higher caliber of people at the automags forum. Or so I thought from my past surfing through this place.

**sniper1rfa** · 09-14-2002, 12:06 PM

WonTon...

actually, stock cockers are pretty damn nice.

Barrel - given

feed- you can get stock vert feeds

Pneumatics - you probably dont know the first thing about pneumatics. if you did, you would realize that the tock throw and bullet throw are a mere 1/32" different. the throw of ANY 3/2 valve is determined by the size of the inputs and outputs. there isnt much difference between the bomb and stock.

milling - does it matter?

internals - i have seen a totally stock cocker (besides some dremel work on the valve) get over 1k shots on a 68/3k.

bolt - i made a bolt that was totally open (delrin, the wall of the bolt was 1-1/6" thick) and light as all get out, increased fps over the stock by a total of 10 fps. not very impressive. i dont expect any better from a mass produced part.

ill give you the frame, though i have tune a regular old stock frame to be easily acceptable.

trigger plate? oh shut up, just polish the sucker.

the works cocker, ill have you know, is just a cocker some guy builds. it is no different than the cockers i have worked on. as long as you know what you are doing, you can easily make a mostly stock cocker perform just as well. change the frame and maybe some springs then tune it right and your all set.

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Jeez, I hate this conversation...

Im offended that the timmy even made the list

TALON RULES!!!! ERR HELL NO!

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