Tactical Automag prototype thread. Please help.

[famousgamer]

Okay, I am designing a woodsball marker that uses the excellent line of AGD products. I have been posting on PBnation about this concept marker, and I am going to post it here as well for your input. Specials thanks to the people on PBnation that have helped me thus far.

The reason behind this marker is simple: The Spec Ops Longbow, and soon to be "Black Cell" line of products disappoint me. There are dozens of reasons why the Longbow system is foolish, but its saving grace is the ADG marker that fuels it.

What is strage is that they use a TAC ONE as its base tho? Why not a Custom ULE, or even a hopped up Pro Classic? The Longbow makes NO use of the TAC ONE's picatinny rails, or most of its fast firing upgrades. It is simply overkill, and the price reflects it.

The purpose of my AGD marker concept marker is simple: To beat the Longbow at its own game. Better erganomics, balance, feel and most importantly... price!

In order to finally create this marker, Ill need a little help from you, the experts. The good news is that I got plently of nice pictures ot check out, and also I will be constructing the final approved design. That way, you can actually see the fruits of the labor put into its design.

I would like to thanks everyone who takes the times to help me design this marker. Half of the reason why I choose AGD is the fact that there is such a support base associated with the brand name, and for that I am very gratefull.

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Okay, here is the basic design, and I will follow each picture with a few questions or curiosities I may have...

There are two options. One is to create a marker that allows the instalation of the Spec Ops air-thru Longbow stock...


and the other option is to create the stock from scratch, either by bending aluminium...


or C and Cing the stock peice...


So, I am curious as to which is going to end up being cheaper. The longbow stock is pricey, but less work in the long run.

Also, I am curious how to drill the stock, or aluminum, into the grip of the marker, and even the frame rail. On Pro Classic frame there are already holes in the rear, if one decides to mount their asa from the rear of the marker. Can a similar modification be made on an RT rail? I know there are not holes there already, but is this possible if one made the holes themselves? If this was possible, I could mount the stock into the frame as well, making it much more durable and steady.

Also, I am probably going to use a warp feed. This will lower the overall profile, and be somethig that can directly compete with the Qloader. The marker could end up looking something like this (is the Spec Ops stock is used...)


That is with a vert feed. I might opt to go warp feed, and not use the picatinny riser block. I am also not sure about that either.



So, as you can tell, I got alot of questions. Thanks for your patience, and for your help.

[sasquach]

I have a Tac one, and I agree that the Longbow is rediculous. The 21 rnd tube makes the RT capabilities of the Tac1 irrelevant; furthermore, it is my understanding that the reg on the Tac1 is meant to be consistant in strings, not for "OSOK's" Anyway, I would really like a nice stock for my tac1. At least for the future, you might consider trying to find a way to attach a 98c CAR stock to the back of the tac1. It would look mean and I think it would still be functional. Regardless, I like all of your ideas. Please keep us informed.

[famousgamer]

The good news is that if the Spec Ops Longbow buttplate is attached to the rear of the Automag/TAC ONE grip (see first diagram), ANY Spec Ops stock can then be attached. Of course they would have to sell me that one peice (the buttplate), and I am not even sure if they do that.

Regardless if it works out I will post my plans here so you can try something similar to you marker. When a few more things get ironed out here, the findings should benifit all automag owners that want a more tactical feel from their marker.

Thanks for the input.

P.S. This is how the buttplate attaches itself to the bent aluminum bar...


This would be better if it could be attached ot the rt frame, and not the handle screw tho.

[famousgamer]

... and the crowd goes mild.

[DSR75]

I like it. I've been attempting to design a way to use the automag's completely inclosed, internal design to make a more "scenario" type gun. I like your designs so far. If you need someone to throw ideas off of, feel free to email me at [email protected] I have a lot of designs that I've come up with. Plus I have some connections with a machine shop.

[famousgamer]

Wow. A machine shop hookup is sweet! Really, alot of these designs are stunted, as I have to rely on "easy to make" techniques. A machining place would make alot of things a reality, alot quicker.

I will doodle around a 'lil more, and maybe if you are into the designs we can build a few. I by no means want rights to the design, and I would be thrilled and flattered if other people used it and helped me build it. Thanks for the heads up!

[DSR75]

My dad owns his own machine shop. He's a damn good machinist as well. He's made several stocks for my different guns. None of them have been to extensive though. I would recommend that the stock be removable. I think using a design similar to the spec ops stock would yield the best results. Having a solid stock may look better but it would be harder to connect to the gun. A gas thru is also highly recommended. I'll give him some specs and see what he can do. It may take a little bit, he's currently involved in a very large deal with a big company so he's very busy. Keep me informed of any ideas you come up with. I'm always happy to talk design/construction. It's a big hobby of mine.

[Coralis]

what you could consider too is looking at some the BT gear and then making an adapter to make it fit the mag , that folding stock looks pretty sweet (to me anyway)

[famousgamer]

I agree that the key to a great tactical Automag will be its ability to house other companies stocks and parts.

The main thing to add, like you guys mentioned, was stocks from other companies. That is huge, as there are already so many air thru choices availible, in so many styles. Another clear choice is the addition of either 3/8th dovetail sights on the top of the marker shroud (like the tippmans) or picatinny rails.

I would keep on the path of designing my own stock, but I really do not have an idea of what hardware to use to mount the peices together. If I got that buttplate from the Tippman a-5, or the buttplate from the Special Ops air thru Longbows stock (little flat peice), then it would be much easier to design. I suppose I should get one of these and then continue my tinkering. Perhaps I should check out some kind of Tippmann parts site?

Really, this "tactical" Automag would be most versitile if it was [potentially upgradable with most of the Tippmann/Special Ops upgrades.

Also, I am not sure what format to use when passing my ideas on to a machinist? Can my scale photochop renderings be turned into CAD files, or whichever files a machinist uses? Do machinists also do their own computer renderings? I am not the greatest at designing in three dimentions, but I try to have my two dimention drawings make up for it.

I will go down the more Special Ops variety of the Automag in my next drawings. Expect some more soon. Thanks again for your help guys. I am stoked to hear about your dad the machinist DSR75, and I hope he is stoked about the potential prospect of making something new.

[famousgamer]

Well... this kinda harks back to the original idea...



I think that is one of the better ways to do the stock, or stock adapter. The air thru stock is held in, or sandwiched in like the Special Ops longbow shroud does. Is there even a female plate thing in there, or is it just screwed into the sandwich? That sounded dirty didnt it? You know what I mean tho. Is it really that simple?

Oh yeah, and I am putting the stock/s lower, to allow for mask clearance. Something the Longbow does not do by a longshot!

I will try this design with some other stocks, and a front shroud (which I am still kinda unclear on...)

[famousgamer]

Ugh. I cant sleep.

Here is a shroud that is a two peice cover. Each peice connects with the other vertically. This is a warp left frame.

The bottom peice connects to the frame near the finger guard. This is connected the same way that foregrip extenders do.

The top peice connects to the stock adapter near the rear, but I am not sure how yet.

Each peice has a picatinny rail/s, or dovetail screwed in.



Very vague, but I just wanted to see if the idea agreed with anyone.




EDIT: Oh yeah. Here is a way to attach em. Kinda ugly still, but I will make a purdy version a little later, and based on feedback as well... Looks like that stock adapter part that connects to the frame has a good use after all, in attaching the top shroud.

[DSR75]

An adapter is a great idea. I only have experience with 98c stock, not the a-5. Do they connect a different way? I'm sure they do since you have a specific one for each. As far as how he makes his stuff. We'll take your ideas off the paper and put our knowledge together on the best way to try and make your design. We may have to tweak some things here and there that are not feesable. I think I may need to break down and get an RT rail so we have a better idea of how to build it. I'll try to get some pics of the stock he made for my tippmann pro carbine a few years back. Also mask clearance is HUGE!! I like using a red dot. It comes natural to me since I use one when I hunt. The thing I hate most about all the commercial stocks out there is that there is NO mask clearance. It's obvious that Spec Ops never field tested their "longbow sniper" before having it sent off. Or if they did they didn't have masks on. I like the drawings you have up. You are putting a lot of work into it. Just be patient on our end. Like I said in another post, he is really bogged down right now. I'm actually going down there this weekend to help him with some projects.

[craltal]

is it just me, or does the stock seen too low? I prefer to have a stock a bit more inline with the main body of the gun.

Also, specops sells just the rear end of the longbow. It attaches to the same six holes that the RT sight rail does, placing it higher. Albeit, it also costs $150 but it provides another attachment idea

[DSR75]

Have you ever tried to aim down then barrel of the gun or use a red dot with a stock that high? You can't do it with your mask on. I've seen the spec ops one before. No way I'm paying $150 when I can make it myself for quarter of the price. Plus that thing looks hideous.

[craltal]

Have you ever tried to aim down then barrel of the gun or use a red dot with a stock that high? You can't do it with your mask on. I've seen the spec ops one before. No way I'm paying $150 when I can make it myself for quarter of the price. Plus that thing looks hideous.

I'm used to rifles and shotguns, so yes. Aside from that, I use OEG's so I don't have to get me head so close.

My other point, since you obviously missed it, you can run an adapter plate to the six threaded holes on the side of the RT rail so you don't have to modify the trigger frame by either drilling into the middle of it or using a longer rear screw.

If you can make one, go ahead. I don't care, I was answering some questions that were put forth in the thread and adding my $0.02 about placement, not aesthetics.