What makes mags gas hogs?

[nixcamic]

Useing the same barrel, all markers will take the same amount of air down the barrel to accelerate a paintball to 300fps. When you fire a mag all the air goes down the barrel doesn't it? So where is all this extra air going, shouldn't mags be MORE air efficiant than most markers, not less?

[RapidTransit]

It uses a smaller chamber at a higher pressure for a faster recharge rate and to move the bolt. Using higher pressure means if there is like 500psi left in the tank it won't fire. Whereas alot of electro pneumatics today can operate just fine at that pressure.

[nixcamic]

So basicaly mags aren't at all gas hogs, they just require higher pressure?

[11 Bravo]

Exactly..
I see your in Guatemala. My uncle use to live in Antigua.

[nixcamic]

Really? I live about half an hour north of there.

[11 Bravo]

Really. He lived there for all of my childhood and I use to go down there and visit. Very nice He doesnt live there anymore though and I havent been there since I was 19 (long time ago).
Do they play paintball up there in those mountains?

[nixcamic]

Ha, I wish we played up here, all the places are down around Guatemala City though, too hot.

Back on subject though, if you just top off your hpa tanks, you won't useing any more air than any other marker right?

[whistl3r]

they should change that to make the mag operate @ like 150psi.. then it would be the perfect gun.

its really the only reason i sold mine..

[nixcamic]

they should change that to make the mag operate @ like 150psi.. then it would be the perfect gun.

its really the only reason i sold mine..

I think the basic design would need so many changes that it wouldnt be an automag after that, although i do wonder what would happen with a realy really light bolt spring...

[11 Bravo]

Ha, I wish we played up here, all the places are down around Guatemala City though, too hot.

Back on subject though, if you just top off your hpa tanks, you won't useing any more air than any other marker right?

Right.

There are more efficient markers out there, but Mags arent too bad. I get 1,100 shots from a 68/4500. I think thats pretty good.

[Dayspring]

Internally, the mag works at 450psi.

And low pressure != (does not equal) efficiency. FYI.

they should change that to make the mag operate @ like 150psi.. then it would be the perfect gun.

its really the only reason i sold mine..

[RapidTransit]

I think the basic design would need so many changes that it wouldnt be an automag after that, although i do wonder what would happen with a realy really light bolt spring...

I've thought about that too but the problem with a lighter spring if anyone even thinks about it, is it could bindvery easy and the bolt would not return as fast. To make the Mag operate on lower presure yo would have to make the the power tube ID bigger and a bolt to match.

[Asym]

On my classic with level 10 and 68 3k I get over 1000 shots. I played a scenario where we tried to stay out as long as possible so I carried as much paint as possible, full hopper and 8x100 round pods. I shot all my paint and mag would still shoot, did this 3 times. After all the paint was gone the tank was showing around 500 PSI. Still would shoot but not sure how much more.

The numbers everyone suggests is 10 x (size of CI tank) for 3k tanks and 15 x (size of CI tank) for 4500 tanks. I'm getting almost what the rule of thumb is for a 4500 tank, 15 x 68 = 1020. I'm pretty sure I can get those extra 20 shots, the pods I use hold a few more than 100 I've just never sat down and count out 100 balls to see how many I acctually carry. With a 68 4500 and math I guess I could shoot between 1530 and 1600 shots. So its pretty good on air.

I think most reasoning for the gas hog reputation is from dry firing. This has been brought up a few times in the forums about how mags go through a lot more air when dry firing when tuning the guns.

[athomas]

A well tuned setup isn't too bad at all. I don't get the same efficiency as Asym, thats for sure, but I do get over 1100 shots with an 88-3000psi tank.

The automag inefficiency is not that it uses high pressure, but that the bolt stays forward too long after the ball has left. If we make the dump chamber smaller we will increase the efficiency by allowing the chamber to empty quicker. This would increase the internal operating pressure a bit, but won't be noticed operationally due to the way the level 10 bolt spring works.

[nixcamic]

A well tuned setup isn't too bad at all. I don't get the same efficiency as Asym, thats for sure, but I do get over 1100 shots with an 88-3000psi tank.

The automag inefficiency is not that it uses high pressure, but that the bolt stays forward too long after the ball has left. If we make the dump chamber smaller we will increase the efficiency by allowing the chamber to empty quicker. This would increase the internal operating pressure a bit, but won't be noticed operationally due to the way the level 10 bolt spring works.

This would also make it cycle faster no?