..Air America Apocalypse...

[malJohann]

I need advice on prep, use, filling, maintenance, etc. on an Air America Apocalypse system. I'm picking up an out of hydro 3000psi fibre tank soon with the old steely Apoc reg on. Has not been used in probably 8 years or more by the sound of it. Any advice would be appreciated. Also, if someone has a link to or a ZIP file of the Apoc User Manual that would be excellent.

[EDIT] Also, is there any chance that I can run a remote coil on it? Also also, say the tank is a 68/3000, would I be able to put the reg on a 47/3000 or is it limited to the tank size it came with like the AGD Flatlines are? [/EDIT]

[Shane-O-Mac]

Put the reg on any 3000psi tank you like.

Search this section and you will find tons of info about these systems, and other AA systems that are similar. The Armageddon is the only one that isnt similar. If after seaching (use the seach button) you dont find your answers post again in your thread, and I will help you out.

[malJohann]

Put the reg on any 3000psi tank you like.

Search this section and you will find tons of info about these systems, and other AA systems that are similar. The Armageddon is the only one that isnt similar. If after seaching (use the seach button) you dont find your answers post again in your thread, and I will help you out.

Right. I got a User Manual by searching the net with Google, and that answered some questions about maintenance and setup like with a remote coil, etc. You answered my question about the tank size, so thanks for that.

None of my questions was answered by searching on this forum though. I read some threads in this Tech Forum, but none of them had my specific questions.

What's left is how do I (if I have to) prep the reg for use, after 8 years of non-use (and obviously no maintenance). Does it need any oil or not, how do I clean up the insides and what do I look out for when I open it up i.t.o. maintenance?

Where do I get parts? I've read that some parts like o-rings and the seat from the AIR valve can be used to service it, is that true? What about if I need pins, pistons, seats or spring sets?

I also need to know ALL the dos and don'ts about filling the bottle. Things to watch out for and the correct procedures and checks to follow when filling it up.

[Shane-O-Mac]

Try these links.

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=230047

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=229219

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=227660

Now if your tank has been sitting around, unscrew the adjuster and remove the spring pack and the piston. Clean the bore of the reg and the piston as best as you can with a clean dry rag. Put a drop of oil on the springs (just avoiding corrosion), and 2 drops of oil on the piston, and re-assemble. You may want to remove the fill nipple and clean the pin in there, and lightly, LIGHTLY oil the o-ring. Like just put a drop of oil on your finger and ever so gently smear a tiny bit on the o-ring, and re-install. I prolly wouldnt do that myself unless it was leaking after trying to fill it for the first time. When adjusting the pressure, becarefull, if you go to high you may bend the pin. Try not to screw in the adjuster more that 75%-80% of the way in and you should be safe.

Finding seats isnt bad I$I sports sells them. Do not use any seats other than real AA parts, they are snow white in color. Anything that is yellowish or soft enough to pinch, do not use in a primary reg system. Reg pins may be harder, check if I&I sells them, I havent looked.

Ok so I looked. go here: http://www.iisports.com/search.asp?s=iispaintball
Stray away from the seat in the this kit: http://www.iisports.com/product.asp?...&dept_id=12360 but the o-rings for the piston and the body halves will be in there. For a seat and pin buy this kit: http://www.iisports.com/product.asp?...&dept_id=12360
Spring pack should be fine, they dont wear out easily. I think that should about cover it. Read the info in all the links and that should get you taken care of.

[malJohann]

..Ok so I looked. go here: http://www.iisports.com/search.asp?s=iispaintball
Stray away from the seat in the this kit: http://www.iisports.com/product.asp?...&dept_id=12360 but the o-rings for the piston and the body halves will be in there. For a seat and pin buy this kit: http://www.iisports.com/product.asp?...&dept_id=12360
Spring pack should be fine, they dont wear out easily...

Thanks for the info, but how would I get it shipped to South-Africa? I&I only ships to US, and "International Ground" (mine is going to have to cross the ocean somehow)? That said, it costs freaking $39.95 for an "International Ground" package that weighs 1lbs (3 Quick Kits and 2 Rebuild Seal Sets), is this normal?

[Shane-O-Mac]

Thanks for the info, but how would I get it shipped to South-Africa? I&I only ships to US, and "International Ground" (mine is going to have to cross the ocean somehow)? That said, it costs freaking $39.95 for an "International Ground" package that weighs 1lbs (3 Quick Kits and 2 Rebuild Seal Sets), is this normal?

Wow, I have no clue what to say to help you. Try and look for someone who sells them in the UK. Their used to be an AA Europe. Maybe someone has parts left over.

[malJohann]

I picked up this Apocalypse system locally for the equivalent of $40US yesterday. I assume that's a good price (even with the tank out of hydro)? It still has the original tank manufactured in May 1996, which has never been hydro'd because it was used for 2 years then stowed. So, I'm guessing take it for a hydro and if it passes I'll be able to use it until at least May 2011 (with the 15 year life for a fibre tank), right? Also, looking at the pics of the on/off, which position is on and which off? [EDIT] Oh yeah, what size tank is this, since it doesn't say anything on the label? [/EDIT]

Click the thumbnails for a bigger picture:

[Shane-O-Mac]

Looks like a 88 or 114 tank size.

Fifteen year life span is correct.

The last picture is in the off position.

If your gonna use it I would recommend the rebuild kit form I&I thats has the on/off o-rings also. They dont go bad often, but when they do, the o-rings for it are hard to find.

[malJohann]

If your gonna use it I would recommend the rebuild kit form I&I thats has the on/off o-rings also. They dont go bad often, but when they do, the o-rings for it are hard to find.

I'm guessing you're talking about the Rebuild Seal Set to which you linked, right? The previous owner split the body halves to inspect the internals just before he sold it to me, so I'm guessing I'll need a Quick Kit too, or is this not absolutely necessary? If him splitting the two halves affects performance, in which way does it and why? Also, would I still be able to play with it or not?

[Shane-O-Mac]

I'm guessing you're talking about the Rebuild Seal Set to which you linked, right? The previous owner split the body halves to inspect the internals just before he sold it to me, so I'm guessing I'll need a Quick Kit too, or is this not absolutely necessary? If him splitting the two halves affects performance, in which way does it and why? Also, would I still be able to play with it or not?

The seats are a crush to fit design. When new and uninstalled a seat is thicker. When installed it crushes down to the shape needed for perfect fit. While it can be used after taking the body halves apart, the performance will not be the same. It may work just fine for you and it may not. When I teched at tourneys for AA we always replaced the seat when the body halves were split apart. No exceptions. The only AA system that you can flip the seal and re-use is the 'Geddon. Basicly you shouldnt take the body halves apart unless the system is creeping. Since your in SA, I would buy a few quick kits and one or two that have the on-off o-rings. Since your already paying out the wazoo for shipping, might as well get plenty.

[malJohann]

Since your in SA, I would buy a few quick kits and one or two that have the on-off o-rings. Since your already paying out the wazoo for shipping, might as well get plenty.

That's what I'm planning, but I need to verify something first.

I took the bottle to be hydro'd today and the guy said the thread on the bottle is damaged (almost at the end of the thread, i.e. the pressure test adapter almost screwed in freely all the way then became difficult at the end), so he said he's not even going to try turning it in further failing it right there.

The thing is, the thread on my regulator also has a slight nick (like between 1 and 2mm), does this now render the regulator useless too, or can it still be used (even if that's after the thread is professionally repaired first), or is the slight damage no biggy? I'll post some pictures tomorrow.

[EDIT] Is there a product that I can use (maybe something like a certain type of Loctite) to repair the slight nick in the regulator thread at home, that's if it's even necessary? [/EDIT]

[EDIT2] Hmmm...everything I posted above may be of no significance, since I just noticed that there's some kind of thread locking gunk left over in the bottle thread at the end, which explains why it got difficult to turn his pressure test adapter in at the end. I'm going to clean it out tonight and go see the hydro tester again tomorrow. [/EDIT2]

[Shane-O-Mac]

That's what I'm planning, but I need to verify something first.

I took the bottle to be hydro'd today and the guy said the thread on the bottle is damaged (almost at the end of the thread, i.e. the pressure test adapter almost screwed in freely all the way then became difficult at the end), so he said he's not even going to try turning it in further failing it right there.

The thing is, the thread on my regulator also has a slight nick (like between 1 and 2mm), does this now render the regulator useless too, or can it still be used (even if that's after the thread is professionally repaired first), or is the slight damage no biggy? I'll post some pictures tomorrow.

[EDIT] Is there a product that I can use (maybe something like a certain type of Loctite) to repair the slight nick in the regulator thread at home, that's if it's even necessary? [/EDIT]

[EDIT2] Hmmm...everything I posted above may be of no significance, since I just noticed that there's some kind of thread locking gunk left over in the bottle thread at the end, which explains why it got difficult to turn his pressure test adapter in at the end. I'm going to clean it out tonight and go see the hydro tester again tomorrow. [/EDIT2]

Yup clean out the loc-tite and it should thread on just right. When they assembled these tank the used 2 drops of Red loc-tite to keep the bottle from coming off. Now it isnt exactly necessary, as once you pressurize it the pressure will hold it in place. Since the bottle and reg doesnt screw into the gun, the bottle shouldnt receive any twisting action. I would personally put 2 drops on the last three threads, let it wick around then spin the bottle on. When done correctly it will still be removeable if you have to fly somewhere with it. So take your time, use a dental pick or similar item and thourghly clean the threads, the are more than likely not buggered. I wouldn't worry about the reg unless it will not screw into the bottle all the way.

[malJohann]

Yup clean out the loc-tite and it should thread on just right. When they assembled these tank the used 2 drops of Red loc-tite to keep the bottle from coming off. Now it isnt exactly necessary, as once you pressurize it the pressure will hold it in place. Since the bottle and reg doesnt screw into the gun, the bottle shouldnt receive any twisting action. I would personally put 2 drops on the last three threads, let it wick around then spin the bottle on. When done correctly it will still be removeable if you have to fly somewhere with it. So take your time, use a dental pick or similar item and thourghly clean the threads, the are more than likely not buggered. I wouldn't worry about the reg unless it will not screw into the bottle all the way.

Just what I wanted to hear! Now, the o-ring between the reg and tank on the Apoc, is that a standard o-ring like the one between a Co2 screw-in and ASA?

[Shane-O-Mac]

Just what I wanted to hear! Now, the o-ring between the reg and tank on the Apoc, is that a standard o-ring like the one between a Co2 screw-in and ASA?

No not the same. Should be fine though, I have only ever replaced one that I can recall. Just put a drop of oil on it and massage it with your fingers and install.

[malJohann]

..So take your time, use a dental pick or similar item and thourghly clean the threads, the are more than likely not buggered. I wouldn't worry about the reg unless it will not screw into the bottle all the way.

I took an o-ring pick to it last night and cleaned out all the gunk. The regulator now spins in freely all the way by hand. I'm going to take it for hydro on Friday and will let know the outcome.

How do I ensure the tank is clean inside afterwards though, since it would be a bummer if some particle messed up my regulator during play due to contamination, or shouldn't I worry?