level 10 discussion/suggestions

[rudy]

http://www.msu.edu/~slouppau/venturi.jpg

The next idea / suggestion I have is something that should definitely be looked into and tested. I have noticed many guns which use a power tube or spool valve tend to be less efficient. automag, tippmann, matrix, novas, and shockers. and in several there is no o-ring on the power tube. And at least with the matrix a missing o-ring was added in the bolt kit and helped quite a bit. I think that putting an o-ring on the mag to stop air from escaping between the bolt and the power tube will help efficiency. I had thought of this some years ago and figured an easy modification to the brass power tube tip would work. But the superbolt 2 would probably cause that o-ring to not be as effective and wear out quickly. So it looks like the best place to put the o-ring is on the superbolt. Take a look at these pictures to see what I think will work.

AGD: did this years ago and the orings get sheared off.

http://www.msu.edu/~slouppau/sbeffic.jpg

The o-ring would of course need to be quite low on friction (unless you wanted to slow the bolt down some if your springs and power tube o-rings were not getting the level 10 where you want it) but the nice thing is even if it became to loose or wore out, it would not stop the gun from functioning. So it would be a rather forgiving addition.

If efficiency can be increased the operating pressure should drop, and we should see less kick, and less people coming close to venting since they will be able to use lighter springs with good results.

[FrAuStY]

Very good thread... I also believe the o-ring at the rear of the bolt would be a nice addition. Good pictures. I don't think the bracket arm in the left of you picture would work as it would be too weak in the middle, I see no reason why the one on the right wouldn't work as its a more rigid design. Also if it were diamond shaped like a triangle up and down...it would be just as strong and maybe flow a little more gas. I know triangles are the most rigid geometric shape so that could add strength, lower weight a little from the pic on the right, And be functional in flowing gas.

I agree with the springs.. but I believe once the springs start to break-in..you can go to the next smaller size spacer to pickup the slack from the bolt spring being weakend. (won't know til we all play more) I noticed my gun would only fire with the 1.5 carrier if I had the lightest (original) spring in it. If I went to the new spring (like old stock one) it wouldn't fire. The medium and longest spring was also a no-go.

I would also like to know if anyone has noticed a hissing form the bolt if you hold the trigger after a shot? Is this unused air in the chamber..that didn't have time to leave the bolt? Anyone else notice this? I have a #2 spacer, 3 shims. If I remove 1 shim it doesn't do this..but the bolt also has a little more force. The gun doesn't leak when the triggers at rest. Give and take right? Its no big deal because you normally don't hold the trigger after a shot anyway. Its not the internals leaking and its very faint.. maybe 6 psi bleeding off. (Thread said discussion.. I'm discussin' )

I don't really know who would need the carriers larger than 3 Unless the bolt stems and o-rings a manu'd way out of tolerance. I believe each half step is .005 difference. What if when us beta users narrow dow the wide scale of what spacers are actually needed to get 99.999% of guns going.(Since 9 or 10 came with the kit) have another 5 of them in tolerances of .002 running between the most commonly used spacers. That way.. if we use a 1.5 now...and want a little more resistance from the bolt o-ring we could drop in the the next titghter carrier by .002 as the one at .005 may not allow the marker to shoot. Put those two or three in there. Just a suggestions... I know .00x is rough to get exact lol but hey...it would allow for more tuning

Nice thread..I subscribed to it as I think this will turn into a lvl10 forum in itself.

[CpSuPeRkId]

well i dont have my lvl10 but heck i can still discuss by what i know. well it sounds like a few things could be fixed such as the problem with the sprins or orings on the bolt. i dont really thing either one is neccesary and wouldnt really mind if they never happened. besides im sure tom has thought about it, after all hes a genius when it comes to this stuff.

about fraustys problems now.
i think u have 1 to many shims in there. too many causes a continuous leak but not enough is supposed to casue bolt stick. most people run 2 shims anyways so id suggest goin down to 2.
as for your gun not firing with the medium or long spring, thats becasue your velocity isnt high enough to create enough force to move the spring. each spring has a certain starting velocity where it starts to fire. that just means that your velocity isnt high enough when u put the bigger springs in. this is all going by what i read, hopefully its accurate and helps

[rudy]

was the oring sheared off right away? or after about how many shots?