Not everyone believes paint to barrel match is important

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • hitech
    Not a shedder of vortices
    • Nov 2001
    • 4775

    #1

    Not everyone believes paint to barrel match is important

    Here is Glenn Pamler's opinion. Your opinion? Is everyone bored with this?

    BTW, a friend of mine just purchased one of his barrels for his mini mag and it shoots very straight.


    1.IMHO, brass provides the least friction against gelatin and the best opoptunity to get it shaped and finished properly.

    2.There seems to be a general "GADGETUDE" that wants to try to match a barrel to the paint being used. (of course this is promoted by those that want to sell barrels) It is far more important to match the barrel to the guns valveing and the way the expanding gas is used/released. The only other factor that I feel needs to be addressed in barrel selection is that of length. The variable that effects the decision of what length to use is temperature averages. As temperature raises, the gas is under higher pressure and is able to expand and accelerate faster, making a short barrel useable, but anything under approximately eight inches becomes counter productive in all but extremely warm conditions. On the other hand, colder weather slows down the expansion process and requires a little longer tube to allow things to get up to speed without wasting much of what is released by the valve. A barrel that is too long will also yeild unfavorable results due to the extra gas needed to keep the ball moving past the point where desired velocity is reached. Too much gas generates a muzzle blast that effects the ball after it has left the barrel. Who knows what direction a ball will take when the gas blows past it outside of the guidence of the barrel. In most cases, 12" should be considered as the maximum effective length for a paintball barrel. The presure options from a regulated high-pressure system will also affect the choices for "optimum" barrel length in much the same manner.

    3. The texture and shape of the bore are both important to consistancy and effectiveness. (FYI: Colin Thompson and I generated some huge phone bills with discussions over valving and launch tube shapes, while trying to come up with ways to achieve the right ballance, many years ago.)

    4. The way that we set up barrels here depends on the gun and its use. However, the basic concept is based on a shape that is slightly eliptical. A little tighter at the breech and muzzle than in the center section of the tube. The specific dimensioning will vary with the type and setup of the gun. We have had good results with shapeing to meet the basic need of guns by brand but will usually achieve better results when we have THE specific gun to work with.


    Hey Hitech your starting to sound like me! - AGD
    Hitech is the man.... :eek: - Blennidae
    The only Hitech Lubricant
  • cphilip
    Former Moderator

    • Jun 2026
    • 16216

    #2
    Well...I do not come to the same conclusion as you from what he says. I think you are putting words into his writing that are not entirely there.


    AGD, where we are so good we can do it with only ONE tube!

    cphilip.com

    Comment

    • hitech
      Not a shedder of vortices
      • Nov 2001
      • 4775

      #3
      Originally posted by cphilip
      Well...I do not come to the same conclusion as you from what he says. I think you are putting words into his writing that are not entirely there.
      I probably should have said MOST important, but was having trouble fitting everything into the subject line. My bad; I didn't want to mislead anyone.

      What conclusion did you come to? I really am looking for opinions that are different than mine. It's the best way to learn, IMO (I'm never humble).

      Thanks.


      Hey Hitech your starting to sound like me! - AGD
      Hitech is the man.... :eek: - Blennidae
      The only Hitech Lubricant

      Comment

      • cphilip
        Former Moderator

        • Jun 2026
        • 16216

        #4
        Well I thought he was of the opinion that fluting and valve matching (he says that but doesn't explain waht he means by that) were more important but I didn't think he was trying to say that matching paint was not nessicary as I would have to disagree with him there. I think he thinks its not THE most important thing to think about first. I am not inclined to go completely along with him nor am I saying he is wrong either. He makes some good points. But by doing so leads you to think he discounts paint to barrel match completely. I don't think he believes that is so nor did he intend to lead you into that conclusion. I hope not anyway.


        AGD, where we are so good we can do it with only ONE tube!

        cphilip.com

        Comment

        • hitech
          Not a shedder of vortices
          • Nov 2001
          • 4775

          #5
          Originally posted by cphilip
          I thought his article was interesting because I don't think getting the "perfect" match is as important as it appears many here do. As far as accuracy is concerned I think the barrel needs to be tight enough to keep it from moving back and forth in the barrel and loose enough to not break the paintball. I believe that having as smooth a surface as possible is more important. Comments, anyone?

          cphilip, thanks for answering.


          Hey Hitech your starting to sound like me! - AGD
          Hitech is the man.... :eek: - Blennidae
          The only Hitech Lubricant

          Comment

          • headcase
            Gotta Love Toys
            • Nov 2001
            • 1141

            #6
            Well I'm not going to comment on the article, but on my experiences with his barrels. I've owned 3 Blazers, a Typhoon, a Nasty Typhoon, and a PGP that was upgraded by PPS.

            All of these markers shot very well with any paint. Perfectly round, too "small" for the barrel, and dimpled out of shape paint all shot very well. I don't know why they work as well as they do, I just know that it works.

            My experiences with bore matching is it works when the paint in round and constant from ball to ball, but if the case you are shooting isn't constant your accuracy suffers. This is a problem I never had with any of my PPS markers, and still don't with my wifes Blazer.
            2003 SuperBowl Champions!, THE New England Patriots!

            He was constantly reminded of how startlingly different a place the world was when viewed from a point only three feet to the left.
            My Feedback

            Comment

            • Jonno06
              AKA Jon-no wang
              • Jan 2002
              • 4392

              #7
              I think there are many factors to worry about w/ purchasing barrels.Some would be the effenciancy of air,Accuracy,lenght,paint to barrel match.These are all important as they are all factors in your gun & barrels performance.Effenciany of air is important,because you can get more shots w/ more effienciany.Accuracy obviously speaks for itself,Lenght matters for range and what position and what type of game you are playing,paint to barrel match is really important because if the paint is too small for the barrel,then the paintballs will just roll out of the barrel,and it uses more air to get the ball out,if the paint is too big for the barrel,the friction caused by shooting the paint down the barrel will break the paintball.If there is a good match,it will save air,and get good range/accuracy,so all in all,paint and barrel match only matters,for if that match is good,the other factors will follow.

              Comment

              • cphilip
                Former Moderator

                • Jun 2026
                • 16216

                #8
                Originally posted by hitech


                As far as accuracy is concerned I think the barrel needs to be tight enough to keep it from moving back and forth in the barrel and loose enough to not break the paintball
                Yes I agree thats the point you have to achieve. But outside of those parameters it becomes very important only if its so far off you cannot shoot without breaking paint or the ball rolls past the detante and down the barrel before you can shoot them. That I would call very important! So I guess its important to a degree. In between there the acuracy can be affected slightly though. Too tight or too lose. Gas use and how consistent over the crono I have seen affected by slight miss matches of the paint to barrel and those sure affect consistent accuracy don't they? Sorry but he confuses me somewhat on what he meant. I might not be understanding him correctly. I will say that I saw very little difference using a .689 and a .691 on the same RPI paint one time when I was messing around with this. I had to turn the valve up a bit to crono the same with the larger one. They both were tight. One tighter than the other but both met the definition of rolling through with some effort blowing on the barrel. One a bit more effort of course. After that (with a .693 and a .687) they became erratic and hard to control both Valve setting over the crono and accuracy. But between those first two they seemed equal. Just an observation but not very scientific I know.


                AGD, where we are so good we can do it with only ONE tube!

                cphilip.com

                Comment

                • hitech
                  Not a shedder of vortices
                  • Nov 2001
                  • 4775

                  #9
                  Originally posted by cphilip
                  Just an observation but not very scientific I know.
                  Maybe, but that is exactly what I was looking for. I doubt very many here have been able to perform scientific tests. Experience is still important.

                  Originally posted by cphilip
                  the ball rolls past the detante and down the barrel before you can shoot them. That I would call very important!
                  I'm with ya there. I have a lot of experience with that lately. :)


                  Originally posted by cphilip
                  ...how consistent over the crono I have seen affected by slight miss matches of the paint to barrel and those sure affect consistent accuracy don't they?
                  Inconsistency mainly affects accuracy in the vertical plane. That doesn't affect me nearly as much as changes in the horizontal plane. However, while I believe you that it affected the consistency, I don't understand WHY. Any ideas?

                  It seems to me that erring on the side of too tight is better than too loose. My stroker was a smaller barrel. It has the Palmer elliptical honing and will shoot almost anything. It shoots PMI Premium very well without breaking. When I tested it for size I was afraid I was going to break it trying to stuff it into the "breach".

                  Thanks,
                  Hitech


                  Hey Hitech your starting to sound like me! - AGD
                  Hitech is the man.... :eek: - Blennidae
                  The only Hitech Lubricant

                  Comment

                  • cphilip
                    Former Moderator

                    • Jun 2026
                    • 16216

                    #10
                    Originally posted by hitech
                    Inconsistency mainly affects accuracy in the vertical plane. That doesn't affect me nearly as much as changes in the horizontal plane. However, while I believe you that it affected the consistency, I don't understand WHY. Any ideas?

                    Not sure what you are asking. It seems to vary in the horizontal plane by inconsistent distances. I do not know why. Best guess is variance of the ball's not sealing in the barrel right? Your guess is good as mine. Let see if one of the smarter guys can fill us in. I do know it took a bit more air to get 280 FPS out of the loser fit in my example. I was barely able to hit 270-275 with it all the way up. Soon as I went down to the .689 I had to turn it down to get back under 300. And it was more stable. It was in like 3-2 psi differences while before it was 5 or so. So slight but noticable. And both actually passed the blow test realy. I was using RT crono procedures by the way. So it was just a field test under very lax controls. But it convinced me it did make slight differences and outside of a bigger parameter it could get ugly. But I think within 3-4 thousanths its so slight you won't realy notice too much other than valve pressure changes that I saw. I suspect its very logrithmic after that though.


                    It seems to me that erring on the side of too tight is better than too loose. My stroker was a smaller barrel. It has the Palmer elliptical honing and will shoot almost anything. It shoots PMI Premium very well without breaking. When I tested it for size I was afraid I was going to break it trying to stuff it into the "breach".

                    Thanks,
                    Hitech
                    I agree! The tighter the better from my observations. Within reason.


                    AGD, where we are so good we can do it with only ONE tube!

                    cphilip.com

                    Comment

                    • hitech
                      Not a shedder of vortices
                      • Nov 2001
                      • 4775

                      #11
                      Originally posted by cphilip
                      I agree! The tighter the better from my observations. Within reason.
                      Thanks. I'm trying to formulate my own opinion and want to know what everyone else thinks. Right now, erring on the tighter side seems right to me. Thanks again.


                      Hey Hitech your starting to sound like me! - AGD
                      Hitech is the man.... :eek: - Blennidae
                      The only Hitech Lubricant

                      Comment

                      • mac2k4
                        Ca$h money
                        • Jun 2001
                        • 362

                        #12
                        well for me, in my opinion, i don't care about accuracy, i mean, i'm prolly the only person who cares if theres broken paint in my barrell, most of the time the paint just blows throug, as long as i can hit around about 10 feet circle at like 50 ft. i know that's pretty bad but hey thy always say accuracy by volume, i know a bunch a yall are like, see angels aren't accurate, well they are(when ya atleast clean out the barrell and stuff, but i just go out and don't worry.

                        for tournaments(like in a few days) at mardi gras open) i'm goin to use my biggest bore size(so i don't break paint) and no it won't be very accurate, by hey half the time i'll be on the other side of your bunker :-)

                        i think too many people worry too much about lil' stuff, goin out and payin 250 for a freak system(they do shoot good though) when they really can't aford it.

                        plus when your tradin w/ sombody ya might miss'em, but then that lil' curzed ball krancks'em right in the gogs. or not but hey just play and don't worry.

                        Comment

                        • hitech
                          Not a shedder of vortices
                          • Nov 2001
                          • 4775

                          #13
                          I can understand accuracy being less of an issue when playing "speed ball". Where I play most of my eliminations are longer rather than shorter.


                          Hey Hitech your starting to sound like me! - AGD
                          Hitech is the man.... :eek: - Blennidae
                          The only Hitech Lubricant

                          Comment

                          • Muzikman
                            Everything AGD
                            • Dec 2000
                            • 6229

                            #14
                            I have had talks with Glenn about this. His idea makes lots of sense, but at the same time, so do most barrel manufacturers. I like Plamer equipment as much if not more than AGD (might be the reason my Cocker is still my primary gun even over my Emag). All my Plamer guns shoot as well as any of my other guns as far as accuracy. Is this dues to the barrel, I do not know. I can say that my Palmer barrel shoots most paint better than my beloved .689 BOA snake bite barrel on my cocker.:)

                            Comment

                            • hitech
                              Not a shedder of vortices
                              • Nov 2001
                              • 4775

                              #15
                              Muzikman,

                              Thanks for posting. So far, NO ONE has posted that their Palmer Marker/Barrel shoots anything but very accurate. The one by buddy just got for his 'mag had everyone watching in awe. However, somewhat knowing Glenn personally, he can be, how should I say it, biased toward his own opinions.

                              On another note, is your 'cocker a manual trigger or electro? Some day I need to get an electro as I'm a short stroking muther...

                              Thanks again.


                              Hey Hitech your starting to sound like me! - AGD
                              Hitech is the man.... :eek: - Blennidae
                              The only Hitech Lubricant

                              Comment

                              Working...