Smart Parts Patent Will Destroy Paintball! - Read!

[shartley]

Originally posted by manike
I don't try to do that.

Well then let me apologize for misinterpreting all your posts that seem like that is what you were indeed trying to do.

Originally posted by manike
Thank you. So you do at least see the point here. Excellent paragraph I agree with it completely.

And thank YOU, yes we do agree on much.

Originally posted by manike
Nope I agree with you in general.

Again, see.. there is not as much difference in opinion as was made out to be.

Originally posted by manike
I also think consumers have little or no say in what is going to happen now in that this is in the hands of the courts and lawyers and what their actions are, is the most important thing. But you know what? We (as in those of us on the net) have already made a difference in a small way (possibly a VERY big way, but who is to know yet). Some information and prior art that has turned up during these threads and discussions was previously unknown to some parties involved in this. They know about it now and every little helps.

And AGAIN we agree! Isn’t that amazing?

Originally posted by manike
I don't think a boycott will ultimately achieve much here other than letting SP know that some consumers do not like what actions they are taking.

And…. well, you got it… WE AGREE AGAIN! But I openly state that folks can do what they like.

Originally posted by manike
I do think that people should be made aware of what is happening and what might happen. I don't think someone should be preaching that it won't happen just because they don't think it will. I think people should know all the possible outcomes.

And once again, we agree…..

But that also includes letting folks know that quite possibly nothing very bad could happen as well. It seems to me that to say only doom and gloom can be spread all over the internet, but that someone who thinks it will NOT be doom and gloom shouldn’t be able to state their opinions is contrary to everything AO has ever stood for. It is saying that the masses can shout at the top of their lungs about the worse case scenario, but someone who does not believe it will happen can’t say so.

And I for one didn’t “preach” about anything. My voice was one of a vast number of voices, and in fact a MINORITY of voices here. Why are you so concerned? This confuses me. I take a positive outlook on something and I am treated like I should not and that it is a bad thing. This too confuses me.

If you are truly wanting everyone to know what MAY happen, then don’t get all worked up over someone saying that quite possibly nothing of any significance may happen as well. That is, after all, one of the many possibilities.

Originally posted by manike
The power of the net and communication and discussion is not to be taken lightly. We can make a difference, by finding out a little bit more info, or by making more people aware. It all helps. 2 heads are better than one when it comes to searching for information. 1 thousand heads or more are even better... and that's how many people have so far signed the petition. I expect there are many more reading all this that haven't signed but they may still have known a little bit of useful information.

I agree with this, and I never advocated doing “nothing”… far from it. It seems that the only real difference in our thinking is how this will all end. I believe that if truly wrong, SP will be proven so in court. I believe that the information gathered and presented by consumers will only help the situation. And in fact may indeed put a stop to it. And that in itself would blow the whole “worse case scenarios” out of the water… making who right?

Originally posted by manike
I encourage those that are still looking for earlier web posts about electro's or earlier prior art in other fields to continue. Who knows, someone may find the smoking gun (electro? ) that solves the case.

And I also agree with this.

Again, we are in agreement in just about every aspect, all but the final result. I have faith in the courts and the paintball community. And I don’t see the industry crumbling over this. And that is what I have maintained all along. Thank you for your post, it clears up a great deal.

[shartley]

Originally posted by manike
I don't have so much faith in the American patent court system, having had to deal with it myself.

And that is fine.. nothing wrong with you feeling that way.

Originally posted by manike
I also don't think OJ was innocent, and yet an American court found him so? See miscarriages of justice do happen! Even when unexpected.(yes I know about the civil case, but I don't believe there is such a thing when it comes to patent law).

And for every OJ case there are HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of cases that turn out “correct”. My point? You can feel any way you want, but again it comes down to neither being correct or wrong. It is about opinions, nothing more.

Originally posted by manike
I don't share the same faith. Having had to deal with the courts before and knowing more about what is going on in this case than most. I know the industry is worried about this (and some have considered crumbling), having spoken to heads of many/most of the top electro companies involved. I don't think you can say the same thing can you?

Again, you are not wrong in feeling the way you do. But to think, or to insinuate that because you talked to people I have not, and they too think like you do does not prove you are any more correct than I am. Remember, everyone thought the world was flat at one time too. And they could produce plenty of “proof” to support their claims and opinions.

You have a perspective.. I say again PERSPECTIVE, that I have not participated in. This is true. But again, until it works its way out, no one can say for a fact what is or is not going to happen. Sure, they are worried.. I would be too. But I am not in their position, and honestly, I don’t think you are either. But I could be wrong……

Originally posted by manike
I'm hoping it won't be the worst case scenario, but that won't prove any of us right as such. If I fight my side and it works, does that mean you were correct? or should we just bury our heads and hope what you say is going to turn out to be true? As long as SP don't take control then I win. I don't care about discussions on web forums in comparison to the bigger picture. If we weren't doing what we are who knows there may have been a different outcome. Cause and effect. Chaos theory. It's all unknown until you open the box and find out if the cat is dead or ready to claw your eyeballs out...

There you go again talking about burying heads…. STOP IT! Damn Simon… LOL Didn’t you READ what I wrote? If you did, you would clearly see that we advocate the SAME actions.

All I am saying is that you can do as we both agree SHOULD be done, and yet not shout about the worse case scenario every time we turn around. The simple truth to the matter is I have more faith than you do.. and that is fine. I believe, honestly, that right will prevail… you have doubts. Fine. But please don’t act like my faith in the system is wrong, or is somehow burying my head in the sand when everything else we have discussed has been in AGREEMENT. LOL

[shartley]

Originally posted by jinxed


Like Doc said, if SP wins, then the honeymoon is over.

Alot of paintball designs were not patented early on because the inventors felt it would help paintball grow.

So, regardless if SP wins or looses, this is probobly just the tip of the iceburg.

-Nick

This is also very true. Everyone seems to want Paintball to be taken seriously as a sport and an industry, but then act shocked when it is forced to do thing just like every other industry out there. Yes, the Honeymoon may very well be over…. But I know plenty of great marriages.

[shartley]

Originally posted by manike


Ah so I know things/facts about what is happening that you don't know, but we both just have 'opinions' on things that I know but you don't? Interesting concept.

You mean you have an opinion on what is happening which doesn't agree with my fact that I know of what is happening.

Now for you and others who don't know what I know, then yes I can see how you just think we both hold opinions.

And for some who don't want to take what I am saying as fact because I can't always reveal my sources I can see how you just want it to be my opinion rather than being able to accept it's a fact that you just don't know or don't have the resources to know.

I try to make my resources known but it isn't easy.

I know certain facts and know I am correct. If I know that and your opinion is different, then your opinion is no longer just an opinion, but an incorrect one. Get it?

I'm sorry you don't have all the information I do, and that that's why you are incorrect but that happens sometimes. That's life. Sometimes some one else holds the cards and it makes you wrong. Just because you don't know why you are wrong doesn't make you any less wrong does it?



You are

There's more to it than faith. There is knowledge. Call it insider knowledge if you will.

Cute…. Want to sit there and say you know it all, and you have information that no one else has?…. Then enlighten us… PLEASE.

But unless you do, you are only typing words…. Sorry. And if anyone else did the same thing, you would be all over them for it.

Again….. if you have FACTS that we don’t know, then POST THEM, or don’t try to claim you do.

Want to talk about holding the cards? I call……. Let’s see them.

[shartley]

Originally posted by AGD
Shartley, I will ask you nicely to please back off. This thread is breaking down.

AGD

Okay. I fully understand………… consider it done.

[$tevo]

so is there any point in buyin any electros anymore?

[robert heatwole]

smartparts=PIGS!!

[TransMan]

One more thing the rest of the Paintball companies can use against SP is Advertising. Think of where just about all teh paintball advertising is... thats right Magazines now when flipping through them what do u see mostly BE and Kingman with WDP WGP and AGD in there too. Now lets say that all the paintball companies got together and said hey every painball mag out there we are not going to buy advertising if u allow SP to advertise as well. What are the mags gonna do lose most of there money or cut SP out and lose a very minimal amout compared to that of losing everyone else. Im sure SP doesnt have the mney to buy up all the advertising of Kingman, Tippmann, BE, AGD, WDP, WGP, AGD, and all of the other....

I think this is very serious but there is just too much going again SP for this to get much further as long as we and everyone in the world of paintball stand up agains them.

[TransMan]

Originally posted by Kid_A
I wonder how this is going to affect the resale value of my freak ...freakin smart parts!

Well seing as how we are not Positive about everything at this point... i will give ya 20$

[TransMan]

the way i see it what we have bought from SP in the past is done and we cant change that now so now what we do is not buy anyhting else from them

[TransMan]

Originally posted by e mag
if this is true and SP goes through with it, couldnt AGD just patent the use of nitrogen tanks and then not let SP use it? that way even if SP was the only one who could make electros they would only be able to use co2.

Prob wouldnt bother them if u want to play a whoel game with a shoker u better be using a 20oz Co2 tank

[TransMan]

ok one of yal needs to be the bigger man and just stop talking about the other that will stop it so whos it gonna be?

[TransMan]

While im not sure that SP is bigger than Kingman or BE i dont think they would sell anyways. If they are offered to be bought then they know they have won and will not let someone buy them out because if all this is true they stand to get a lot more money in the long run then they ever would by being bought out.

[Fishsticks]

With the current upheaval within the online paintball community, the Digital Paintball team has taken drastic steps to show its disapproval against Smart Parts’s latest lawsuits; DPB as an organization is OUTRAGED by the actions taken by SP. Siding with the likes of Jim Drew, Tom Kaye, Doc Nickel, and thousands of other players, we have decided to remove any and all pieces of Smart Parts equipment from DPB 2.2 (this means all plans for SP Barrels, models, skins, etc. have been scrapped). There will NOT be an Impulse, Shocker, or Smart Parts model in DPB 2.2, as of right now we are debating if we should bar SP from all future versions of DPB.

Here is a logo designed by Kuja expressing our thoughts about SP’s actions: http://www.digitalpaintball.net/?sp feel free to pass this link around, it’s the least we can do.

In a crisis such as this, we as a community must unite to show express our concern for the future of our sport. The removal of SP Gear from DPB 2.2 is our token of affection to the Gardner brothers.

Thank you for reading,

Gordon Yu
DPB Development Team Member
http://www.digitalpaintball.net

[Fishsticks]

Originally posted by manike
I don't care about discussions on web forums in comparison to the bigger picture.

Well said.

[darklord]

Perhaps cockers and mags will dominate the scene once again?

[july_favre]

Are they any plans for the companies to come together and help eachother fight SP before they can get anything rolling? If these companies waited too long to fight a common foe(for every player) it might be too late.

[july_favre]

Hey jim, since you are very well knowed about this area, can you give us some insight about what to expect from this and SP might have or not have to win theyre cases? Alot of us are pretty confident that there is a bunch of prior art that wouldnt allow them to win but we know very little about how those things work.
Perhaps you could even tell us what each side is likely to argue?

[Black_Dragun2578]

ok u guys have no right for saying crap about smart parts they make great products let them do whatever they want to
yes it may mess with some other companys

yes agd has SOME good products i had a classic mag myself to start out with but it never worked when i wanted to.....no i am not flaming agd because like i said they do make some good products

but these companys should try and think of ways to beat this patent im sure tom can think of something amazing but im not a big agd lover such as u guys on here i am more of a smart parts lover ebcause their guins are really nice and have some awsome products

but anyways u guys should really not flame them because im sure if more iogers find this they will be talking about ti over there and both sites will get *POOF* up anyways STOP FLAMING SMART PARTS
im done

[Black_Dragun2578]

Originally posted by FalconGuy016


Do you even know what they are trying to patent

yes i do know what they are patenting but still u guys have no right for flaming them i mean agd has alot of patents for other crap maybe nothing this big but other companies have copied off them and they should owe them something

[Black_Dragun2578]

sorry wickedairsports but idont think u will change our minds

[kevdupuis]

And some people wonder why I've refused to buy anything SP for the past three years.

[Nick O time]

I hate Smart Parts. It's a good thing we have Tom to think up of these great things like the ULT and stuff. Someone should make a patition(sp?) to boycott Smart Parts.

[Nick O time]

i don't know much about this sort of thing, but wouldn't this be a monopoly because it is preventing anyone to make new things and such. i heard it was hard for people to press charges against Microsoft, becuase they kept on making newer and better things, so if SP failed to do so it would be easier to file a suit for monopoly or something.

remember i am not to big on this sort of thing, but that is some of the stuff i remember learning about in the economics part of our history class.

[Nick O time]

yeah i am selling my freak and buying an evil pipe kit.

[Nick O time]

this wouldn't solve anything accept for getting around the on off of the marker, but here is my idea for that:
You could have an automatic sut off of like 30 minutes and then have an over ride button if you were playing scenarios or big games and stuff. Then you could hit the over ride button again to make the gun go back to the 30 second shut off. again that might not work, but that is just an idea and probably doesn't solve any problems.

*Warning: Sig too big* -Miscue

[cris8762]

wow, this is horrible

i really hope SP loses, and it seems like there is a fair amount of evidence against them though!

What's even worse is that the value of my imp (that i'm trying to sell) just went down like crazy! DAMN YOU SP!!

[SlartyBartFast]

I've only been reading up to now, but I've got a question for the patent savvy members.

Why are we (and the defendants) seemingly concentrating exclusively on paintball and paintball patents for prior art?

Seems to me that you approach absolutely any automation engineer, industrail process technician, or any one in the pneumatics and/or electronics field and ANYTHING in paintball pantents concerning pneumatics or electronics is covered by prior art.

I mean a switch to activate, sense, or power a device is patentable?
Using an IR sensor to detect a component in a flow?
Using batteries to power something wirelessly?

You'd get laughed off the planet if you tried to make those claims in any other industry.

[SlartyBartFast]

Originally posted by mr_mich
Boycotting Smart Parts probably won't do much.

I had proposed another way of protesting against SP’s action in a thread I started:
https://www.automags.org/forums/showt...threadid=98839

The thread was closed, but I would have thought it would be helpful for those wishing a more effective protest to have a thread devoted to that. That and while I have instant access to all the other threads on AO this one seems to produce server errors most of the times I try to access it.

I think that 125$ more per gun is a little optimistic if the claims that SP is asking a million up front are true. It would take sales of 8000 markers to break even on 1 million dollars up front. That's before you add the interest and financing costs to that.

It would seem to me that it would mean 500 or more added to the cost of each electro.

[1stdeadeye]

This is very bad!

To those that say wait for someone else do do something, remember the parable about the good man and the Nazis.

He did nothing when they came for his neighbor. They were Jewish. He did nothing when they came for his other neighbor. He was a gypsie. No one did anything when they came for him!

Greed starts on a small scale. SP will shake down little guys like AGD, WGP, and WDP. Yes, in the larger scheme of things those 3 are little companies. Then he will go after the Kingmans, NPS, and BEs.

Has anyone noticed the new Smart Parts campaign in your latest PB mags? They are not aimed at you and me, but at dealers and vendors. They are trying to convince resalers to buy directly from them rather then through a distributer like NPS. Laying the ground work for when Gino cuts him off maybe?

Fortunately Gino is just as greedy as SP. Don't be suprised if he goes after them to protect his own interests down the road, not as a benevolant interloper in the first round of lawsuits.