lvl 10 issues

[skyless]

Well i thought my lvl 10 x valve was tuned pretty good. However it wont pass any of the anti-chop tests, squeege/dollar bill. Set up is with 1.5 carrier, red middle spring, and no shimms. There does not seem to be any difference if i add any shimms either. Velocity is down as low as it will go and still shoot, i dont have a chrono so im not sure on what my fps is. Any help would be great. all tests were done touching the bil/squigge to the bolt as i hear it only vents in the first 1/4 inch movement.

EDIT: Getting some balls, hang some balls half breech for most accurate anti-chop capabilites. Will see how good of an antichop i can get.

[Smoothice]

Well i thought my lvl 10 x valve was tuned pretty good. However it wont pass any of the anti-chop tests, squeege/dollar bill. Set up is with 1.5 carrier, red middle spring, and no shimms. There dones not seem to be any difference if i add any shimms either. Velocity is down as low as it will go and still shoot, i dont have a chrono so im not sure on what my fps is. Any help would be great. all tests were dont touching the bolt as i hear it only vents in the first 1/4 inch movement.

Do you have a stiffer spring?

Does the bolt slide pretty easily on the power tube? Maybe the next size bigger carrier would help.

[skyless]

Do you have a stiffer spring?

Does the bolt slide pretty easily on the power tube? Maybe the next size bigger carrier would help.

yep i have a stiffer spring and tried using that one with the same results just have to use a hight velocity to get it to fire. It seems that it will pretend to anti chop but the bolt still travels 3/4 of its full movement. it resets and is ready to fire again, that is why i have not used any shims, it has no prob recocking. The next bigger carrier causes very minor leaking.
I tried using a smaller carrier too thinking it would help slow the bolt down but that did not work. Any way the hole that vents air could have gotten blocked? I really thought i had a good idea about this valve. Im defiently confused and keep going to refill my tank every day.

[flyingpootang]

Skyless, The shims are used for fine tunning your L10 bolt. Kind of like if sizers go in .50 increments shims are @ .15-.20 increments. So start with 2 shims, place a squigee about 1/8 to 1/4" in front of the bolt and fire your marker. The bolt should hit the squigee, bounce off and then reset. Keep adding 1 shim at a time until the bolt dosen't reset and sticks. Remove 1 shim then it will be tuned. To obtain the ultimate fine tunning of the L10 anti chop bolt you can mix L10 shims and the slightly thicker ULT shims. The stiffer the spring the better the anti chop capability, but a higher velocity is needed to unseat the bolt.

[Spider-TW]

all tests were dont touching the bolt as i hear it only vents in the first 1/4 inch movement.

Um, yes it only vents in the first 1/4" of travel. You have to give it some resistance in that first 1/4 to have it reset itself. A dollar bill or squeegee after that will get 'chopped'.

[skyless]

Skyless, The shims are used for fine tunning your L10 bolt. Kind of like if sizers go in .50 increments shims are @ .15-.20 increments. So start with 2 shims, place a squigee about 1/8 to 1/4" in front of the bolt and fire your marker. The bolt should hit the squigee, bounce off and then reset. Keep adding 1 shim at a time until the bolt dosen't reset and sticks. Remove 1 shim then it will be tuned. To obtain the ultimate fine tunning of the L10 anti chop bolt you can mix L10 shims and the slightly thicker ULT shims. The stiffer the spring the better the anti chop capability, but a higher velocity is needed to unseat the bolt.

The bolt SHOULD hit the squigee, bounce off and then reset. Thats the problem, the bolt hits the squigee and starts venting but continues moving foward then resets. it does not seem to vent fast enough to prevent chopping. Would adding shimms aid in this? ill try and see.

[flyingpootang]

The bolt SHOULD hit the squigee, bounce off and then reset. Thats the problem, the bolt hits the squigee and starts venting but continues moving foward then resets. it does not seem to vent fast enough to prevent chopping. Would adding shimms aid in this? ill try and see.

Adding shims will tighten the carrier o-ring and give you a better antichop capability. What you are basically trying to do is to allow the bolt to unseat at the slowest/softest speed and reset if it hits something in it's first 1/8" to 1/4" of travel. It must also be able to reset without sticking in the forward position.

Shims are like a fine tuner for the carrier o-ring tightness.

[Russ]

Adding shims will tighten the carrier o-ring...

no, they don't. they release the pressure sooner

from reading skyless' post, there doesn't seem to be any problem. Spider-TW has it right.

[flyingpootang]

no, they don't. they release the pressure sooner.

Your right it dosen't release pressure any sooner and if you read my post I never said it would. So I guess I also have it right

from reading skyless' post, there doesn't seem to be any problem. Spider-TW has it right.

If you carefully read Skyless's post you'll see he's trying to obtain a softer/better antichop capability.

[Russ]

Your right it dosen't release pressure any sooner and if you read my post I never said it would. So I guess I also have it right


If you carefully read Skyless's post you'll see he's trying to obtain a softer/better antichop capability.

???

who packed your bowl!

[skyless]

Um, yes it only vents in the first 1/4" of travel. You have to give it some resistance in that first 1/4 to have it reset itself. A dollar bill or squeegee after that will get 'chopped'.

sorry for the mistype, All tests were *done with the squigee touching the bolt. Refill my tank tommorow for more testing. thanks for the imput, please dont go into your wrong im right post, ill let you know how things turn up, but i would really like to make my x valve function at its best and i need some help so....Thanks

[Spider-TW]

sorry for the mistype, All tests were *done with the squigee touching the bolt.

Ah, I see. I read that several times and still didn't make the jump to "done" from "dont", even when I tried. I was trying to change "were" to "where" and it wasn't working.

You do have to give the bolt some fair resistance in that first 1/4". Mine would halfway launch a squeegee if I didn't hold it back, but they work well. The reset isn't instant and it interrupts a good walk or a reactive burst.

[athomas]

The level 10 bolt setup works on the principal of differencial force. The spring provides force against the bolt movement. The chamber pressure provides force to move the bolt forward. If you turn the velocity down so that the gun does not fire and then gently increase the velocity until it does, you have found the lowest operating pressure. That gives you maximum antichop ability. For reliability, go 20 fps above that value. You don't get any better antichop capability than that because the forward and reverse pressures on the bolt are nearly equal, with there being slightly more in the forward direction to move the bolt. If you find that the velocity is too low at this setting, use a stiffer bolt spring and do it again.

Don't worry about the shims when setting up your bolt for antichop. They do nothing other than change how far the bolt has to move before it can vent the gas. If your bolt is venting as you mentioned, it is fine. The amount of time it takes to vent does not change the force the bolt exerts on the ball or an object in the breach.