Houston we have a problem.

[lidocaine]

Hello all,

I took my Tac to the field today to play with some friends in some recball and I went to go chrono my marker and it is jumping 20-30 fps per shot, why is this? I am using HPA.
The gun is brand new though, could this have anything to do with it? I think this is just rediculous, I could barely aim with the thing because the velocity spikes made the paintballs eradic and unpredictable.Anything I can do about this? I thought mags were supposed to be ball on ball plus minus 2 fps guns.My paint (evils) was also a bit small for the stock JJ barrel.


Thank you,Lido

[MX48]

Be sure to use the chrono procedure outlined in the sheet that came with the gun. Pull the trigger and hold it in, then release it and refire as fast as you can to get an accurate chrono reading (something about the air heating up in the valve). I have the same thing happen on the chrono with mine when I don't use the procedure. I also saw my chrono speeds were much more closely spaced when I switched to the ULE trigger. Don't know why or if it was just a fluke but I was getting within 2 FPS yesterday with it.

As far as your paint going everywhere, when my field switched paint my accuracy went to hell in a handbasket. I had to get a barrel kit, made a huge difference.

Hope this helps
MX48

[Spider-TW]

How much lube did you use?

I had a case of Diablo something (12?, 13?, meh) this weekend that wasn't very nice. Some balls fell straight through my .688 insert and others I couldn't blow out. Both my x-valve and classic valve mags were varying about 265 to 281 over about six shots. Every now and then one would be worse. I should have bumped up another size but it was just rec ball. There were a large percentage that fit well in a .684 insert and a few that fell out. That .684 would have made for a lot of trouble.

For +/- 2 fps, you have to have round and consistent paint for sure. After that, it's all in the condition of the orings.

I have a timmy that did +/- 1 with some tiny paint as well (just 4 shots). The paint was small, but well made. Check at least dozen balls.

[longi]

Could also be a defective o ring on the brass piston in the back of the reg. That o ring helps to control the velocity consistancy. The other o ring that controls the velocity is the regulator seat o ring. As good as it is, the velocity consistancy on the Rt/Retro/X valve/Emag series valves has never been 100% You may get the odd one running 20 fps lower but it is rare. One after the other and i'd say it's an o ring issue.

[lidocaine]

I put about 5 drops total of lube in it.

So is a barrel kit reccomended? Are the JJ kits any good, theyre the cheaper of the kits but look really nice?

Also is small point worse consistancy wise or is large paint for the barrel of the gun?
I ask because Im using the stock barrel, and evil being the small bore that it is a couple of them rolled out and almost all of them rolled half way down the barrel and stopped where the two barrel pieces connected.

I think im going to go this weekend, im gonna check a ton of my paintballs in the barrel size checking to be sure it wasnt that bag, then im gonna write down every single number I chrono.This is the most expensive gun ive ever bought and that should show for something in performance considering my A-5 is shooting better and my phantom is shooting WAY more consistant.

Thanks all,Lidocaine

[Spider-TW]

I ask because Im using the stock barrel, and evil being the small bore that it is a couple of them rolled out and almost all of them rolled half way down the barrel and stopped where the two barrel pieces connected.

This is a problem. Likely, the problem. Check your detent.

First, make sure the ball is still in there (no joke).

Second, make sure there are no scratches on the bolt or the detent where they have been rubbing together.

Third, adjust it so that it will hold your paint of choice (with your loader pushing on it, if you have a force feed loader), no further. Mark it or count the turns screwed in. Use a little blue loctite to keep it where you set it. The orings can back out and if you get in the habit of snugging them up, you'll eventually screw it in too far.

Small or large doesn't make as much a difference as variation in the size or shape. It also needs to be kept in the breech until fired.

[lidocaine]

What does the detent look like?
What piece is the bolt?
Spider could you explain what you mean in your 4th line? Talk like your talking to a preschooler.
My paint is always in the barrel when i'm chronoing because I hold my barrel level and shoot very slowly so i'd know if a ball rolled out of the barrel, and obviously if a ball rolled out a number wouldn't chronograph.

[Spider-TW]

If the ball is halfway down the barrel to start with, it will shoot but not very well.

Do you ever get two balls instead of one, or breaks in the barrel with small paint?

As long as the paint actually fits down the barrel, it doesn't matter for velocity consistency if it is a little small. The paint just needs to be round and the same size from one to the next. Mags will digest amazing variations of paint. I use mine to clear out my garage of all of my months old paint scraps. Paint that is "too small" for the barrel is really defined by the loss of accuracy when it bounces down the barrel too much. Balls will fly left, right, up and down, but with the same muzzle velocity if it is all the same size.

Paint that is egg shaped can rub the whole diameter of the barrel if it gets in sideways, or fall through longways, or go from one to the other as it goes down the barrel. This makes the velocity vary a lot, but probably not as much as you are looking at. That's why the detent is important.

Anyway, detent is the black plug on the side of the body just below the feed neck. On the inside of the gun you should be able to see, and push in, a white ball (on a stock detent). It is spring loaded. It should push in and come right back out. Some times the little ball comes out and you are ...out of luck; you probably shot it at someone. The paintballs roll away from the face of the bolt and there is no control of the velocity that it will come out with. That detent ball should be able to keep the paint in the feed neck (and gravity) from pushing a ball in the breech away from the bolt.

I can't find a picture of the stock detent. I think yours should be black plastic on the outside and a white ball inside, but it will look a little like this Kila detent.

[athomas]

Make sure the oil in the mag is blown out before you attach a barrel. Any oil in the barrel will affect the accuracy. Also, make sure the paint is round and consistently sized. A large bore barrel helps smooth out size fluctuations. I use a 0.696" bore for everything.

If the mag valve is new, there could be some velocity fluctuations until the orings get broken in.

[lidocaine]

my detent is in place.

My barrel wasnt put back on till a good 30 shots circulating the oil around

Im hoping it was just the newness of the mag and to let the o rings get broken in.
Im also ordering a JJ elite barrel kit right now for it, is this a good one? It looks AWESOME and is far cheaper than the other ones.I hate the brightly colored freaks.

Thanks

[PhoenixWolf]

A lot of the field paint is just garbage. The box may say Premium, but some paint manufacturers actually ship their seconds to fields, screwing both field and player alike. Back before PMI Premium got horribly bad all around, the field paint was of a decidedly worse quality than the stuff you could pick up off the shelf. I went to a field recently, and I boresized their paint anywhere from .684 to .689 in the same bag. Horrible stuff.

[lidocaine]

Im using a brand new case of evils ^^^^

[PhoenixWolf]

Yup, PMI paint. That'll do it. The Marbs shoot okay still, but they splatter 30 feet from a single shot (I'm NOT kidding. I had to clean up the mess). Try Karnage Tear.

[maniacmechanic]

if i remember correctly , it will take 2 to 3 cases of paint to "break" in the valve , basicly to seat all the o-rings in , some time in this 2 to3 cases you will probley have to retune your level 10 as this o-ring may start to leak a little as it wears in
As far as chrono & ball on ball , a LOT of that will depend on the paint ; roundness , seams , fill , ect . Ive seen high quality paint shoot like crap in one marker & like aces in another
feel free to correct me if i'm wrong

[PhoenixWolf]

I'll agree there, though the Automag can get away with a lot because the Level 10 is gentle on paint. I was shooting brittle Procaps paint as fast as I wanted through my Mag with no breaks and it shot well. The pump and high end users were getting barrel breaks left and right. I cleaned house simply because my gun remained accurate.

That said, PMI paint has declined horribly in the last year, much like the rest of the company. The company is clearly on its way out. Technology has also improved, and lots of companies make GOOD paint now. Back in 2001 there were only a handful of paint companies, and only one or two good ones. Now, most brands are actually pretty good if you get the premium stuff. PMI has actually gotten worse, though; I could do ball on ball with their paint a few years ago. Now it's all over the place, and the Marbs make a freaking MESS.

Go with Karnage if you can get it. They showed up a few years ago, and when I first started using them at BlackCat games their sizing varied from batch to batch but was still very consistent within a batch. Now they've stabilized at .687. Their paint shoots great, and is a good choice.