Tac-1 final tune up

[stompdown]

The only setback with my Tac1 is when I first pull the trigger the valve "chuffs" and spits a ball out about 10 feet. If I keep on the trigger it will rock until the hopper is empty. It only chuffs if I give the valve about a 5 sec break. What may be causing this? I have 3 shims in my lv 10. I searched the forums but could not find what I was looking for. Thanks.

[Ruler_Mark]

The only setback with my Tac1 is when I first pull the trigger the valve "chuffs" and spits a ball out about 10 feet. If I keep on the trigger it will rock until the hopper is empty. It only chuffs if I give the valve about a 5 sec break. What may be causing this? I have 3 shims in my lv 10. I searched the forums but could not find what I was looking for. Thanks.

bolt stick can cause this. try tightening or lossening the front screw and the vlave screw, but do not doo it too loose or your gun will separate while aired up and blow up.

[PhoenixWolf]

Force fed hopper? I had a Reloader B pull that crap with my Mags. Forced a second ball in just far enough to make it chuff. The Reloader B is particularly bad because it's sound-activated, and even the balls rolling in the hopper can activate it. If I was shooting constantly, no problem. But if I moved or just about anything else I was guaranteed to chuff on my first shot. I had Luke install a second ball detent, although I haven't had a chance to test it to see if my problem is fixed. I'm looking at getting rid of that hopper instead. The VLocity has adjustable pressure and is eye-activated, making it a far better candidate.

[stompdown]

I am using a VL eyeforce hopper. So I guess it might be the hopper or might be the rear screw. I only tighten the rear screw slightly snug. Do I nee dual ball detents? I have 1 detent that came with the Tac body. Should I try an RPG detent?

[PhoenixWolf]

Just did some tests with my gun. The answer is yes, you need dual detents. My gun was doing EXACTLY what you describe. The dual detents fixed the problem. The Eye Force does not have adjustable tension like the more expensive VLocity. Your loader's tension will be enough to cause double feeds with a single detent. Contact Luke here on AO. He'll fix you up. He does top flight work at a good price, and he's very fast (I'm local and had my mainbody back within 48 hours, including shipping both ways). The only thing is you'll need to buy a second detent from AGD. No big deal.

[stompdown]

I see what your saying about double feed and the purpose of dual detents to resolve it. I just don't understand why the initial trigger pull shoots the first ball half *** and what a detent would do to fix the initail "chuff" . I'm not double feeding it just shoots the first ball about 10 feet then everything is fine till I give the valve a break. Even if I didn't have the hopper on, my first shot would be the same. To me it seems the valve is not charging like it should for the first shot. Any clarification before I take any drastic measures would be great. Thanks

[flyingpootang]

Try the next larger L10 carrier while using the same white carrier o-ring.

[finnmanpa]

Sounds to me like an issue I had, where it would rock out for strings, but after sitting awhile the bolt would'nt cycle or shoot slow on first shot.

Your carrier o-ring may be a hair to tight. Try the next carrier size up. If it leaks, then keep the carrier you have, but check your spring.

If ever your gun is gassed up, and there is pressure on the trigger, but the gun just won't fire or fies slowly, this is just a lack of chamber pressure. Turn up the velocity a bit or drop down a spring size and see if that helps.

You want to test your carrier and initial set-up using the smaller gold spring. Once you have determined the gun fires and doesn't leak then good, your carrier is set.

From that point chrono your gun. The spring you use should be the one that allows you to start shooting the gun at 20 fps less than your desired velocity. Since most fields are 280 fps limit, and I keep my Mag around 276ish, I shoot to have my Mag start shooting at about 255-260.

To test this start with the smallest spring in your gun, then drop your velocity down just enough to where you gun doesn't have enough input pressure to cycle. Bring up the velocity a little at a time till the gun fires consistently and measure that velocity FPS. This is the reading that should be around 20 fps lower than your desired average velocity. Test each spring in your gun so you know what spring will work effectively at your desired velocity for the day.

Example, I shoot 276ish to 280 with my red middle spring, and my red middle spring starts shooting around 255 fps. That works great outdoors. But indoors, with velocities limited to 250, the red spring is too strong for my gun to work and I must use the shortest gold spring.

[lidocaine]

Finn,

So if your cranking up your velocity little by little starting with the weak spring and the gun starts cycling at say 235 ish then it is not the optimal spring and you should then move up to the middle spring, and if it starts at 245ish, then move to the strongest one for optimal performance which would cycle at 265 ish fps which is approximately 20 lower than the 280 field limit? The numbers were just examples

[finnmanpa]

Finn,

So if your cranking up your velocity little by little starting with the weak spring and the gun starts cycling at say 235 ish then it is not the optimal spring

using your numbers as an example, the optimal velocity to shoot your Mag with that spring would then be 255ish, which is great for indoor fields where 250 is the limit, but bad for outdoors

and you should then move up to the middle spring, and if it starts at 245ish

optimal velocity would then be 265 for your Mag

then move to the strongest one for optimal performance which would cycle at 265 ish fps which is approximately 20 lower than the 280 field limit? The numbers were just examples

Correct! Seem like you understand it, now acuatlly test it with your gun and springs. Make sure you have the carrier o-ring correct, and always test the carrier o-ring setting with the smallest/shortest spring first.

Each Mag will vary somewhat between settings. Knowing how your springs perform will take the guesswork and frustration out of major velocity changes, such as indoors to outdoors, and will get the best performance for your Mag.

Many people skip the checking of each of their springs and while they get great anti-chop capabilities when dropping in the next longer spring, their efficiency goes way down by using a spring that puts too much pressure on the bolt, causing them to have to crank up their velocity, thus increasing input pressure and using more air.

[lidocaine]

I am out of air at the moment, but when I go next weekend im gonna have to test it out.
My efficiency is EXTREMELY bad right now, I got about 400 shots on one 4.5k psi fill ( it was about 4.2k to be exact) so hopefully moving down one spring will improve efficieny a bit?

Silver-weak
gold-medium
red-strong
Correct?

Also, one day when I was messing around with my gun I set it down for a couple of hours at 1.5k psi, I came back to it at 500 psi.How could it have leaked so fast? The gun was gassed up, but I could only hear an extremely quiet hiss coming from one of the macro fittings.

Another question- if shims increase trigger bounce, why dont people put tons and tons of shims in instead of buying an adjustable regulator on your tank to get crazy trigger bounce?
Bolt stick occurs with too few shims, right?

thanks!

[TheRock]

gold
red
silver

thats the way they are in stiffnes were gold is lightest, and are you dryfiring? it uses gas like crazy without paint!

[lidocaine]

I wasnt dryfiring much at the field, no.

[finnmanpa]

Also, one day when I was messing around with my gun I set it down for a couple of hours at 1.5k psi, I came back to it at 500 psi.How could it have leaked so fast? The gun was gassed up, but I could only hear an extremely quiet hiss coming from one of the macro fittings.

That would so it, a leaking gas fitting line.

Another question- if shims increase trigger bounce, why dont people put tons and tons of shims in instead of buying an adjustable regulator on your tank to get crazy trigger bounce?

Shims in the Level 10 set-up or shims in the ULT trigger kit? The shims in the Level 10 set-up have nothing to do woth trigger performance.

The shims in the ULT set-up make the trigger pull lighter, but actually decrease reactivity of the X-Vlave a bit, so I've been told.

This is why guys get an adjustable tank, because increasing the input pressure to the X-Valve increases the trigger reactivity. This holds true weather or not you have a ULT trigger.

Too many shims in the ULT will cause a runaway full auto trigger, illegal in most tournies and fields.

Bolt stick occurs with too few shims, right?
thanks!

Shims are only ever needed if your bolt doesn't recock itself after it fires and stops on a breech blockage. This occurance is called bolt stick. Test this with a squeegie in the breech. The bolt should hit the squeegie, you'll hear a cough sound from the vented gas, and the bolt will reset itself. You should be able to keep right on firing without missing a beat. If you do fire, hit a blockage, and the bolt doesn't reset, then add shims, one at a time, till the bolt consistently resets itself after hitting a blockage every time.

The number of shims actually set the point at which the bolt resets, which controls the point at which the gas vents from the bolt when it stops on a blockage like a partially fed paintball. Therefore, the chances of a static leak are increased with each shim added. This leak is often mistaken for a loose fitting power tube o-ring in too large a carrier. This is why you should remove all the shims when setting up or tweaking the Level 10.

Most people, myself included, find that they don't actually need shims.

[lidocaine]

I have 4 or 5 shims in the gun so I could even get it working.When I got it new it was bolt sticking like crazy, I would have to push the bolt back manually and or degass the asa and re gas it for it to reset.Could this be causing my extremely fast air usage rate?