X-Valve/Level 10/ULT/Reg? Headache

[ghost flanker]

The problem is an extremely heavy "free flow" leak down the barrel which suddenly started last weekend. The gun is a minimag with an X-Valve and ULT. I also have a separate Retro Valve w/ Level 10 installed, which also began leaking down the barrel (less heavily than the X-Valve) when I tried it a day later. The tank is a fully adjustable Air America Armageddon.

I'm using the smallest carrier for the Level 10, but the leak down the barrel still occurs. Now here's the weird thing... when I completely disassemble the valve from the gun and then re-install into the gun again, it'll gas up and shoot without a leak, but rapid fires easily at around 700-750... this is with the ULT installed, which should be impossible. However, when I de-gas and then gas up once more, the free flow leak occurs at about 300-350 psi.

I have no idea what the hell the problem is and nothing like this has ever happened to me before. I've tried everything short of using a different HPA tank. I've tried removing all shims from the level 10, tried other carrier sizes, tried all 5 of my carrier o-rings, tried different size bolt springs, exchanged the on/off trigger assemblies back and forth, replaced the reg seat, tried oiling, and I've used up all the air in my 4500 tank doing it. I'm about ready to saw off my f**king head.

Could I be using o-rings that are too old? I only bought the RT kit 3 years ago. How can BOTH valves suddenly start having similar problems at the same time???? Could the Armageddon HPA tank be the culprit somehow?

[secretweaponevan]

Remove all LVL 10 shims.
Pick 1 carrier o-ring and stick with it.
Use oil.
Use #2 carrier (2 lines, no dots).
Shoot 1000 shots to break in o-ring.
Move broken-in o-ring to largest carrier that doesn't leak.
Use red spring for 285 fps.
If bolt sticks after encountering a jam, add a shim.
Shoot players that use ION's in the gripframe.

[oozeeh]

Shoot players that use ION's in the gripframe.

agreed. i will be doing that this weekend.

[secretweaponevan]

agreed. i will be doing that this weekend.

"Wow, that sucks that it is so hard to clean man. I just take my mag, gassed up, into the shower with me after a day of play."

[cyberave68]

Another idea is try switching the bolt form the 2 valves. It may stop your leak but you may have to re-tune them again....

[questionful]

When I feed low psi into my classic RT (less than 400psi or so) it leaks. Shoots fine when at normal pressure though.

[PhoenixWolf]

Manually lube the on/off o-rings. Oil placed in the ASA does not readily get into the on/off. I prefer to use a slightly heavier lubricant like Hoppes on the on/off o-rings for this reason: it won't dry out and break down as quickly. An on/off leak can easily appear to be a barrel leak.

[ghost flanker]

I will try all of your solutions when I get the time, but I'm not sure if anyone here fully understands when I say "free flow" leaking.

... the force of the air being blown out the barrel at less than 400 psi is literally strong enough to blow leaves or paper across the ground. The leak is similar to those times when you screw your HPA tank in only to realize that you forgot to connect your hose line to your valve. It's THAT strong!

[ghost flanker]

Remove all LVL 10 shims.
Pick 1 carrier o-ring and stick with it.
Use oil.
Use #2 carrier (2 lines, no dots).
Shoot 1000 shots to break in o-ring.
Move broken-in o-ring to largest carrier that doesn't leak.
Use red spring for 285 fps.
If bolt sticks after encountering a jam, add a shim.
Shoot players that use ION's in the gripframe.

Already have removed all shims, and the #2 carrier is too loose. It slides somewhat freely on the bolt.

[ghost flanker]

Another idea is try switching the bolt form the 2 valves. It may stop your leak but you may have to re-tune them again....

Tried that already, too.

[secretweaponevan]

Well, there is definitely an o-ring in the powertube that isn't sealing if you are gushing air out the barrel.

Check your carrier o-ring.
Check your external carrier o-ring as well.
Check the condition of your sear to make sure it is holding the bolt's stem inside the o-ring.
Check to make sure the stem didn't break off the bolt (it should protrude out the back of the bolt a little bit).

[ghost flanker]

Well, there is definitely an o-ring in the powertube that isn't sealing if you are gushing air out the barrel.

Check your carrier o-ring.
Check your external carrier o-ring as well.
Check the condition of your sear to make sure it is holding the bolt's stem inside the o-ring.
Check to make sure the stem didn't break off the bolt (it should protrude out the back of the bolt a little bit).

Inner carrier o-rings may possibly be the cause... but I have 5 of them in my kit... tried them all with in the smallest carrier, with NO difference in leakage.

External carrier o-rings all look fine. I doubt they are the problem because the same leak occurs in all carriers tested.

The sear is verified as undamaged and fully functional. The mag functions perfectly with the classic valve installed.

Also, both level 10 bolts are in one piece.

It may somehow be possible that, for some unforseen reason, all 5 of my carrier o-rings are all suddenly no good, and even though they show NO signs of of damage or wear, they all still allow my gun to function as a f***king leaf blower. The likelyhood of this being so is almost impossible, but I can't think of any other cause for this persistent, HEAVY leak. I'm completely stumped...

...maybe if I replace one of the Level 10's with a level 7 bolt and see if the problem persists...




...!!WTF??

[secretweaponevan]

When you are gushing air, is the bolt not engaged to the sear? Look down the feedport. Can you see the bolt sticking out into the breach?

If this is the case, you might be using too small a carrier, preventing the bolt stem from entering the o-ring's sealing surface.

Also, you want a broken-in carrier o-ring. You break it in by firing 1000 or so dry-fires through it. It will be leaking while this happens, but afterwards, the little lip from the molding of the o-ring will be gone and the o-ring will function properly in the proper carrier. Pick 1 o-ring and stick with it until it is broken in and then use it in progressively smaller carriers until it doesn't leak. Use oil.

Are you sure that you assembled the LVL 10 correctly? They usually don't gush down the barrel if assembled correctly and the bolt is seated.