..Air America Apocalypse...

[Shane-O-Mac]

I took an o-ring pick to it last night and cleaned out all the gunk. The regulator now spins in freely all the way by hand. I'm going to take it for hydro on Friday and will let know the outcome.

How do I ensure the tank is clean inside afterwards though, since it would be a bummer if some particle messed up my regulator during play due to contamination, or shouldn't I worry?

I wouldnt worry about it. The hydro tester has to fill it up with water when he tests it, so that will rinse it out of anything you missed. Once you get it back you can rinse it out again and let it air dry for at least 24-36 hours. The hydro shop I seen had a bottle dryer they put them on after testing to remove all moisture.

[malJohann]

Quick question. I took the guages and fill nipples off for cleaning. The forward (output) nipple had a pin and o-ring in, but the rear (input) nipple had nothing in. Now, I'm thinking it should be the other way around, because how it is now it'll blow out all the gas right after filling and be unable to let air out of the output, right?

[Shane-O-Mac]

Quick question. I took the guages and fill nipples off for cleaning. The forward (output) nipple had a pin and o-ring in, but the rear (input) nipple had nothing in. Now, I'm thinking it should be the other way around, because how it is now it'll blow out all the gas right after filling and be unable to let air out of the output, right?

Yea sounds like the are wrong. The fill nipple is the one with the pin and o-ring, it should go to a port closest to the bottle. You can use any other type of fitting for the output port that you like, they just came with the QD nipples from the factory. You can also switch the nipples and gauges to either side for your preference..

[malJohann]

Yea sounds like the are wrong...

Cool, you're such a great help, and thanks for bearing with me.

My tank passed hydro today! So, now I got a complete system for a total cost of $60 (and a couple more questions :rofl: ).

The certificate I got from them states that the tank was manufactured in May 1996, but first hydro'ed by the manufacturer in November 1996, yet they say that I can still use it for three years (the standard re-hydro time for a glass-fibre wrap tank).

According to my calculations (going by the manufactured date) it's life ends May 2011, yet according to them I can use it until February 2012, so who's right?

It was only used for two years from the manufactured date and then stowed though, and the tank looks practically brand new, but I need to be 100% sure.

Also, the certificate states that it's got a water volume of three litres, what size tank is it in cu (ci?) measurement?

[Shane-O-Mac]

Cool, you're such a great help, and thanks for bearing with me.

My tank passed hydro today! So, now I got a complete system for a total cost of $60 (and a couple more questions :rofl: ).

The certificate I got from them states that the tank was manufactured in May 1996, but first hydro'ed by the manufacturer in November 1996, yet they say that I can still use it for three years (the standard re-hydro time for a glass-fibre wrap tank).

According to my calculations (going by the manufactured date) it's life ends May 2011, yet according to them I can use it until February 2012, so who's right?

It was only used for two years from the manufactured date and then stowed though, and the tank looks practically brand new, but I need to be 100% sure.

Also, the certificate states that it's got a water volume of three litres, what size tank is it in cu (ci?) measurement?

15 years from the date on the tank as far as I know. 3 litres makes me think its a 114 ci, could be wrong though.

[Spider-TW]

15 years from the date on the tank as far as I know. 3 litres makes me think its a 114 ci, could be wrong though.

I was interested in the answer to that one. Three liters is about 183 cu. in.. Was there such a bottle, or could they be referring to the total volume of the tank (not internal volume)?

[Shane-O-Mac]

I was interested in the answer to that one. Three liters is about 183 cu. in.. Was there such a bottle, or could they be referring to the total volume of the tank (not internal volume)?

It is definately an 88 or a 114, most likely its a 114ci as they may not have had 88's at that time. AA didnt make systems with a larger tank. PMS did have a 134 or so, but IIRC it was a 3000psi system.

[malJohann]

It is definately an 88 or a 114, most likely its a 114ci as they may not have had 88's at that time. AA didnt make systems with a larger tank. PMS did have a 134 or so, but IIRC it was a 3000psi system.

I verified its a 114ci by comparing it to pictures of 114ci AA tanks on the web. The three liter volume was probably what it took when they tested it up to 4350psi (right?). 114ci is just under two liters of water if I'm not mistaken.

More questions. My marker did not Rapid-Fire yesterday with the setup I have. I'm running a remote coil screwed directly into the Apocalypse with the QD connecting directly to the valve. Now, I'm thinking it can only be due to two reasons.

One is that I need to service the regulator by replacing all the o-rings and the seat, since its been out of service for so long and because the previous owner split the two halves to check on the internals just before selling it to me.

Two is its because I'm running a remote coil, but I think I remember reading somewhere that this is not the issue, so by way of elimination the only reason then could be that the reg needs a service. So, just o-rings and seat, or the pin and springs too?

Something I noticed yesterday is that if I fired too fast the marker acted as if it were running out of gas (i.e. slow recharge I think) with 2500psi showing on the input guage and 1150psi showing on the output guage.

Also, this morning when I checked it lost about 500psi out of the bottle over night (which is likely the on/off o-rings that need replacement).

[GoblinGreen]

If you leave your marker gassed up all the time I would expect it to lose air overnight.
Better to leave it on the gun and turn off the bottle at the Reg.

When the bottle starts to empty and you get down below 1000psi expect to have drop off.

Also if you run a remote you can also expect to have drop off as it has to recharge down a 1 metre cable instead of straight into the valve.

Try stick the bottle straight into the marker without the remote you may feel some difference.

my 2 cents. use it dont use it. But you aint having my spare apocolype kit (even if the orings are brown-ish)

Glad to hear you got the bottle working though which is a step in the right direction.

[malJohann]

If you leave your marker gassed up all the time I would expect it to lose air overnight.
Better to leave it on the gun and turn off the bottle at the Reg.

The marker was not gassed up and the on/off was in the off position overnight. [EDIT] How do I remove the on/off in order to massage the o-rings with a bit of oil and clean up in there? [/EDIT]

When the bottle starts to empty and you get down below 1000psi expect to have drop off.

I'll keep that in mind, only I had drop off with the input showing 2500psi and the output showing 1150psi.

Also if you run a remote you can also expect to have drop off as it has to recharge down a 1 metre cable instead of straight into the valve.

I don't understand this 100%, since the whole line is pressurized up to 1150psi right up to the regulator on the marker. Surely firing a shot or a burst of shots should just send negative pressure pulses through the line, which in turn prompts the regulator to fill in the gaps so to speak?

Try stick the bottle straight into the marker without the remote you may feel some difference.

I'm going to try that, problem is I didn't get a dovetail mount with the Apocalypse.

[Shane-O-Mac]

I verified its a 114ci by comparing it to pictures of 114ci AA tanks on the web. The three liter volume was probably what it took when they tested it up to 4350psi (right?). 114ci is just under two liters of water if I'm not mistaken.

More questions. My marker did not Rapid-Fire yesterday with the setup I have. I'm running a remote coil screwed directly into the Apocalypse with the QD connecting directly to the valve. Now, I'm thinking it can only be due to two reasons.

One is that I need to service the regulator by replacing all the o-rings and the seat, since its been out of service for so long and because the previous owner split the two halves to check on the internals just before selling it to me.

About the only thing that wuill make it perfrom that badly, is a sticky piston or bent reg pin. Take the piston out, wipe it clean, and put a drop or 2 of oil in it. Make sure the piston slides freely in the bore. It will have some drag, but should have very little.

Two is its because I'm running a remote coil, but I think I remember reading somewhere that this is not the issue, so by way of elimination the only reason then could be that the reg needs a service. So, just o-rings and seat, or the pin and springs too?

Something I noticed yesterday is that if I fired too fast the marker acted as if it were running out of gas (i.e. slow recharge I think) with 2500psi showing on the input guage and 1150psi showing on the output guage.

Also, this morning when I checked it lost about 500psi out of the bottle over night (which is likely the on/off o-rings that need replacement).

Losing air overnight isnt all that unusual. When filled spray some soapy water around the bottle to reg area and all fittings and gauges to find the leak.

Using a remote should not affect recharge.

With your tank at least half full, shoot one shot and watch the gauge, if it springs back immediately to the output pressure the recharge is fine. If it goes down and then rises slowly, recharge is bad. Hopefully you have the large Ashcroft style gauges, they work best when size isnt a concern. When you pull the piston and clean it, look at the reg pin and see if it is bent, many times it can be bent and hinder flow. If/when you rebuild the reg, keep the output at zero, fill the tank, then adjust to 600-800 to start with, test the system like I suggested, the slowly bring it up to 1000psi. I wouldnt go higher than that as you risk bending the reg pin.

[malJohann]

About the only thing that wuill make it perfrom that badly, is a sticky piston or bent reg pin. Take the piston out, wipe it clean, and put a drop or 2 of oil in it. Make sure the piston slides freely in the bore. It will have some drag, but should have very little.

Cool. Saw the piston when I opened the front the other day (and it did look quite gunky), but how do I remove it?

[Shane-O-Mac]

Cool. Saw the piston when I opened the front the other day (and it did look quite gunky), but how do I remove it?

Unscrew the adjuster all the way out, remove the spring pack, and find a pick or small screwdriver and carefully hook the piston and slide out. Clean thourghly, and put 2-3 drops of oil on it. You can put a drop of oil on the spring pack washers to keep any rust or corrosion from happening. Get some q-tips and plain alcohol and clean the bore of the pistn housing thourghly, keep doing it until the q-tips come out clean. You can do this with the tank having air in it, just have it turned off, this will also tell you if the seat is leaking, drop some alcohol in the bore and look for bubbles after you turn the air back on. Make sure and degass the reg before you remove the adjuster and piston.

[malJohann]

Unscrew the adjuster all the way out, remove the spring pack, and find a pick or small screwdriver and carefully hook the piston and slide out. Clean thourghly, and put 2-3 drops of oil on it. You can put a drop of oil on the spring pack washers to keep any rust or corrosion from happening. Get some q-tips and plain alcohol and clean the bore of the pistn housing thourghly, keep doing it until the q-tips come out clean. You can do this with the tank having air in it, just have it turned off, this will also tell you if the seat is leaking, drop some alcohol in the bore and look for bubbles after you turn the air back on. Make sure and degass the reg before you remove the adjuster and piston.

Cool. I actually went ahead last night and removed the piston (without reading your reply first though). The o-ring was dry and there was some oil stains on the piston and inside the bore. I wiped this off with paintball oil and lubricated the o-ring slightly, not nearly 3 drops of oil though, since I put less than a drop of oil on my finger and then applied that to the o-ring [EDIT] (I thought using too much oil can cause combustion, which is why I'm so carefull) [/EDIT]. Checked the pin and its not bent at all, 100% by the look of it.

Anyway, after this I reassembled the front and worked the pressure up from 600psi. At around 1000psi the trigger had a fair bit of kickback (more than before), but not enough to rapid fire yet. Then I incremented it slowly up to about 1200 psi, at which point my mag went into a slow rapid fire (like 8bps or something), but then it got weird.

After about two seconds of sustained fire the output guage jumped from just below 1200psi up to about 1500psi and it started venting from the front. I backed off the pressure by screwing the adjuster nut out slightly and did the process all over again.

Second time around the same thing happened, as soon as there was enough reactivity for rapid fire the guage jumped up from just below 1200psi up to 1500psi, so I backed it down again, degassed and left it until I got some feedback from you again.

Now I'm thinking either I didn't use enough oil when I cleaned the piston last night, the o-ring may be damaged or may need to be "run in" after such a long time of not being used, or I need to replace the reg seat. What do you say? [EDIT] The adjuster nut didn't have to go in as far as before to reach 1200psi, only about half way, where before it was more like two thirds of the way in. [/EDIT]

Also, do you have pictures or a diagram of what the internals look like? I would like to verify that everything is present and installed correctly. [EDIT] Also also, how do I remove the on/off after the tank is empty? I want to check those o-rings and massage them with oil a bit, since it's the only part of the reg I haven't been able to get to. [/EDIT]

[Gate]

not sure if this will help you but I've found a pdf of the manual, it has an exploded diagram on page 5

http://info.paintball.ru/files/manuals/reg/apoc.pdf