On/off pin length

[damajor]

I'm currently using a .750 pin and added a shim under my on/off to shorten it and increase reactivity...which it has...and also has allowed me to drop the input pressure. I can't add more shim because it makes the on/off sit to high and can't reinstall the valve. So with this being said, I would like a smaller pin, but what size? Is the Emag pin to short to use?

[flyingpootang]

Are you using a ULT, RT, or am/mm on/off. Normally shims are only used on ULTs.

[damajor]

I'm using a Retro valve. You can shorten the pin length slightly by putting a single shim under the on/off. I want to make it shorter though. I have read that some people suggest the emag pin...but that seems pretty short?

Are you using a ULT, RT, or am/mm on/off. Normally shims are only used on ULTs.

[MANN]

use a grinder. dont make mistakes.

[flyingpootang]

You can use a .712 (emag pin) with the standard 2 o-ring set up or a quad o-ring

[athomas]

Or, if you don't want to go that short you can get the old style emag pins that are .725". The quad oring will drop the actuation point of the on-off pin. The .712" one will probably work very well for you in that setup.

[damajor]

Thanks for the help guys!

Just to clarify...use the .712 with a quad, or a .725 with the standard single oring setup?

I was just reading some of the other posts to find out more about the quad oring because I didn't know anything about them. One point mentioned was the over travel distance of the on/off pin...is installing a trigger stop that useful?

[MANN]

If you need an emag length pin just lmk. I will trade for a rt pin.

[athomas]

A triggerstop is nice. Any extra travel that you can eliminate helps reduce friction and creates a more crisp feel.

[Tunaman]

The .712 pin will never work in a non-emag marker. It is just too short. Usually nothing shorter than a .740. In an Emag, I have used a .700 pin with the Aluminum on/off top but it was way radical. Shortening the pin too much will cause the tip if the sear to wear out very fast.

[MANN]

The .712 pin will never work in a non-emag marker. It is just too short. Usually nothing shorter than a .740. In an Emag, I have used a .700 pin with the Aluminum on/off top but it was way radical. Shortening the pin too much will cause the tip if the sear to wear out very fast.

hmmmmmm.

Are you saying that it will not work in Pneumags or EPneu mags? If no what is the difference.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but if I use a .712 pin in my Mech mag all I have to do is lengthen the trigger rod. I know it works as I have done it before.

I thought the sear wore out due to not fully allowing the sear to reset, and is usally noticed because the trigger rod has pressure against the trigger while it is not pulled back.

[athomas]

The shorter pin actually changes when the on-off opens. If the pin is too short, then the on-off opens before the sear catches. This causes the bolt to move forward and air to leak out the front. The bolt will never reset to stop the flow of air. Changing the trigger rod length wouldn't help the situation. All it does is change where the trigger sits. It could cause the pin to not fully open or to not properly release the sear. It doesn't change the timing. The timing is purely in the sear and it is a fixed entity.

I never tried a 0.712" pin in a regular setup. I trust what Tunaman mentioned and it has much merit. I did use a 0.725" pin with a quad oring. It worked fine for me. I do have an aluminum on-off top in mine. Maybe that is the difference.

[MANN]

If that is true than it would not work with an emag. emag and Rt sears have identical pivot points. So this would be the same.

Maybe?!
I am not distrusting tuna. by all means he has earned respect from the AGD community. I just dont understand/ think I understand. It is sorta how a mfg says use this spec, but if you change it you can get better preformance

[damajor]

I'm gonna try the quad and the .725 pin. The gun is already pretty easy to sweet spot...I was just hoping to make it even easier and drop the input pressure at the same time. I need to upgrade my hopper also cause there's no way my revy will keep up with this. It's awesome that a mechanical gun can fire this fast!

[athomas]

The .725" pin is probably the better choice. The .712" pin will function, but as mentioned, it probably won't work well. The .712" pin puts the on-off open point too close to the sear /bolt release point. This works fine for the electronics of the emag, but the human error/finger bounce makes it too unstable when the two are too close together. It causes a runaway situation in most cases. I think that is what Tunaman was refering to.