New to mags, I have ?s

[CockerCraze]

I am looking into getting my first mag. i have been shooting nothing but cockers for 3 years and i need something else to try out. i have read up on somethings but still have questions for everyone that has experience.

1. what is a good starter mag that i can slide a lvl 10 bolt in?
2. what are the main differences in a minimag and classic mag? which is a better performer?
3. how can i tell the difference between a RT and RT pro? <---- pics please
4. how much "tuning" is involved and is it difficult for a mag newb, im real good at cockers so im not mechanically challenged, just dont have the lingo down....yet.
5. if you use a mag-to-cocker threaded barrel adapter do the different bores still work right?

ill have more questions as i narrow down my search for a mag. thanks in advance

[eXo_oUtSiDeR]

1) All mags can accept the level 10 bolt, so i guess any mag you want? It really depends on your price range.
2) The minimag has a different, longer body; they perform exactly the same
3) The body/valve

RT classics have a full length body that covers most of the valve

http://i11.tinypic.com/6shocra.jpg

The rt pro does not have a full length body

http://media.photobucket.com/image/rt%20%20pro%20automag/jeff58353/Automag/IMG_0602.jpg

*note- all automag parts are compatible with one another except rt classic parts, the body rail and valve of an rt classic are not compatible, the frame is though and you can put a lvl 10 on it if you want as well. You can not change the rail valve or body on an rt classic!

4) No tuning of mags is required unless you have a lvl 10 or ult. In that case you can watch some videos on youtube on how exactly to tune it. Once you have it tuned well, you should only need to re-tune it once every year or so if even that.

5) im not sure on this one, but if you want I have a mag to cocker adapter i could sell you, send me a pm.

Let me know your price range and i can help you find the best mag for your money!

[xero28]

1. what is a good starter mag that i can slide a lvl 10 bolt in?

A level 10 will go on any valve. It's just a matter of tuning it.

2. what are the main differences in a minimag and classic mag? which is a better performer?

The MiniMag simply had a different body and came standard with a vertical ASA so you could run the tank vertically. There is NO difference between the valves, just the laser engraved names.

3. how can i tell the difference between a RT and RT pro? <---- pics please

Are you talking about a Classic RT and RT Pro? The Classic RT was the ONLY gun AGD made that had non-compatible parts with other AGD markers. You can tell the difference because the Classic RTs had the air going through the rail and into the valve.

Here is a classic RT


Notice the different body as well

Here's an RT Pro


Air input is directly into valve.

4. how much "tuning" is involved and is it difficult for a mag newb, im real good at cockers so im not mechanically challenged, just dont have the lingo down....yet.

If you're mechanically inclined, it's no big deal. Just read up on the tech forums here and you should be fine. It was kind of like when I started shooting cockers a few months ago after years and years of mags. I just read everything I could and then figured it out when I got the gun.

5. if you use a mag-to-cocker threaded barrel adapter do the different bores still work right?

Don't know for sure, but it should work for the most part.

ill have more questions as i narrow down my search for a mag. thanks in advance :cheers

[secretweaponevan]

A Level 10 will drop into any valve except a valve labeled "RENTAL". These valves are few and far between, but just so you know.

[Watcher]

*note- all automag parts are compatible with one another except rt classic parts, the body rail and valve of an rt classic are not compatible, the frame is though and you can put a lvl 10 on it if you want as well. You can not change the rail valve or body on an rt classic!

That is partially false.

The frame is also proprietary to the RT classic.

Owning both an RT and RTPro I know.

Reason being is that the rear bolt holding the valve in is an air-through "banjo bolt" and is a larger outer diameter. So the rear hole in the frame is bigger on the RT classic.

Only things you can change on the RT classic are the barrel, forgrip, airline, sight-rail, and foregrip rail. The body, body rail, frame, and valve are proprietary.

The pic eXo posted is more of an RT ULE.
An RT Pro looks like the top one in this:



The bottom one is my RT classic and it has an aftermarket frame.

[WARHEAD]

I am looking into getting my first mag. i have been shooting nothing but cockers for 3 years and i need something else to try out. i have read up on somethings but still have questions for everyone that has experience.

1. what is a good starter mag that i can slide a lvl 10 bolt in?
2. what are the main differences in a minimag and classic mag? which is a better performer?
3. how can i tell the difference between a RT and RT pro? <---- pics please
4. how much "tuning" is involved and is it difficult for a mag newb, im real good at cockers so im not mechanically challenged, just dont have the lingo down....yet.
5. if you use a mag-to-cocker threaded barrel adapter do the different bores still work right?

ill have more questions as i narrow down my search for a mag. thanks in advance

I have just bought my first mag about a month ago. For all intents and purposes, it's an RT PRO ULE (i.e. what you can buy new from AGD.) with a few aftermarket parts. So far, in the little time I've had it, it has performed better and simply WORKED far more than any marker I've previously owned.

My first marker was a Tippmann A-5. I put pretty much every up on the thing (performance, not milsim junk). I spent $900+ on the setup easy, and sold it for $400.

Then I purchased a Tiberius T9 with some extras, used for about $400. It was more accurate than the A-5 while using 12 gram cartridges. (The A-5 had a Lapco Bigshot barrel)

Now, I am selling the T9, and setting up my mag as my primary. It cost me about $700 (keep in mind all the $ amounts I am using are Canadian, this mag was $530 US I believe) and honestly, it was so incredibly nice to go an ENTIRE day without a single chop.

It was in working order when it arrived (with LVL 10 and ULT) and I decided to play around with it. That ended up being a waste of time, because I ended up figuring out that it was properly tuned when it arrived and just ended up putting everything back the way it was. Regardless, it was a learning experience of trial and error.

What I've learned in this short time:
Automags are far and above the lowest maintenance markers I have ever used. You can't even compare it to a Tippmann. A Tippmann is far more complicated to deal with, and the quality just isn't there. "Some oil in the ASA" is an ABSOLUTE truth when it comes to keeping your mag up and running. Put 5 or so drops of oil in the ASA, fire 50 shots and you are good to go. Of course, it's a good idea to lube up some of the individual o-rings every once in a while and clean the old gunky oil off of the springs and bolt etc.

Need to clean your mag from a chop etc.? Just unscrew the back grip thumbscrew, pull the trigger, and the valve/regulator/powertube/front bolt/bolt sprig all come out in one piece. Run the body under a tap, hell use a hose, let it dry or wipe it down, re-attach the valve, and you're done.

Need to adjust the LVL 10 or ULT? It's as easy as unscrewing a few parts (usually no tools are required) and adding or subtracting shims. This should only ever need to be done once, and maybe re-done every season or so depending on the o-rings and weather. A tank of air and 20 minutes is all you need.

At the local field, the owner made a very good observation: People buy all this junk because they want to PLAY paintball, not sit there for 4 hours fixing their electronic gun, or waiting for some shoddy replacement parts. The vast majority of automags simply work, and work all the time. When they don't, give them oil, other than a very small number of rare cases. Everyone I've ever met that has owned an automag hands down will say it stands up with the best, and they are often the favourites of a collector. (lets face it, even if one marker were to be crowned the absolute king, everybody likes a little variety.)

In my opinion, the one part of the modern Automag (which, amazingly, can be a simple addition to even the oldest valves out there) that is far and above anything else on the market, is the use of the blow-forward bolt design with the LVL10. Assuming you're using quality fresh paint, I would choose a mechanical anti-chop system above ANYTHING that needs to rely on electronics (i.e. eyes). Tippmann has recently created their own mechanical anti-chop system, but good luck integrating it into an M98 from 8 years ago.


If you want my opinion, I say splurge. Chances are any used automag you purchase today, you will be able to sell for an equal price a year from now. I look at it as an investment... a deposit even. You may as well spend the money and enjoy the experience as well as you can, unless you're looking for an old beater to clean up. A nice, perfectly running RT PRO ULE will run you $400-500, usually with a ULT, and that would include the X-valve and LVL 10. I'm sure many others were pushed into becoming automag owners because of this, and I'm more than certain the majority of them never left home without a mag again.

Go for it!

[CockerCraze]

thanks for all the input guys. second line of questions.

1. ULT = ultra light trigger?
2. a mini mag is actually longer than a classic?
3. any mag can have a lvl 10 and ULT? is this a walkable trigger?
4. is a x-valve worth the extra cash in a mech, will i notice a difference in drop-off?
5. what is the best frame for my money?

[rawbutter]

1. ULT = ultra light trigger?
correct... not a light as electronic, but pretty darn light

2. a mini mag is actually longer than a classic?
Yes. That's the only difference.

3. any mag can have a lvl 10 and ULT? is this a walkable trigger?
Any mag can have L10. Most classic valves can't use the ULT unless they're specially modified. RT valves, emag valves, and X-valves can use ULT, though.

4. is a x-valve worth the extra cash in a mech, will i notice a difference in drop-off?
A classic valve works great. An RT valve also works great, but can shoot faster. An X-valve is just like an RT valve, except it's aluminum, so it's lighter.

5. what is the best frame for my money?
You'll get a dozen different answers to this question, but honestly, it's hard to beat AGD's intelliframe. It's a quality frame for less than $100. There are nicer frames out there, but they're a LOT more expensive.

By the way, before you go further, it would be a good idea to read through the FAQ. It will answer a LOT of your questions.

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=214736&highlight=FAQ

[WARHEAD]

thanks for all the input guys. second line of questions.

1. ULT = ultra light trigger?
2. a mini mag is actually longer than a classic?
3. any mag can have a lvl 10 and ULT? is this a walkable trigger?
4. is a x-valve worth the extra cash in a mech, will i notice a difference in drop-off?
5. what is the best frame for my money?

The ULT can be walkable in some circumstances, but it seems to be a luck of the draw type of deal. It will always bring the trigger pull down to about 1lb though.

The x-valve vs the rt-pro or retro valves isn't really any different in performance, but the x-valve is lighter, and a bit more aesthetically pleasing.

You will get the best deal by purchasing a fully assembled mag used, you could probably get your hands on an RT PRO ULE with ULT, X-Valve and LVL10 for $400-$450. That would include a standard ULE body, an Intelliframe, likely stock trigger, likely stock rail and foregrip.

[xero28]

1. ULT = ultra light trigger?

Already answered

2. a mini mag is actually longer than a classic?

The MiniMag was originally marketed to be more "mini" than a regular mag because of the standard vertical ASA. The original Mags came with a asa that was attached directly under the valve. (Look at the classic rail and you'll see the holes where it bolted in). With the vert asa you could run your CO2 tank vertically and have more of a pistol style gun. So it wasn't that the gun was any smaller, but it was set up to be "smaller" out of the box without a tank coming off of the back, elongating the marker. Of course, since you could add the same vert asa to the classic, and due to the fact that most people went ahead with a bottom line setup, there wasn't really any point to the "Mini" classification.

3. any mag can have a lvl 10 and ULT? is this a walkable trigger?

Any valve that uses TWO o-ring at the bottom of the on/off will accept a ULT. Classic (AIR) valves will accept them and some people have found they work well. However, since the AIR valves don't have a higher pressure pushing on the on/off pin like the RT and X-valves do, there can be a tendency of shortstroking/chuffing, especially if you try to walk it. Most of the RT/Retro valves use only one o-ring, so they will NOT take the ULT directly, but they can be milled by people like Tunaman to accept the ULT.

4. is a x-valve worth the extra cash in a mech, will i notice a difference in drop-off?

Really, if you're playing woodsball or don't really care about insanely fast shooting, stick with an AIR valve. They are easily capable of pulling 15 bps, though your fingers probably won't be able to move it that fast. Drop an RT on/off in the AIR valve and it will lighten the trigger pull by about 1/2 without affecting anything else adversely. Get an X-Valve if you're interested in getting an RT effect or putting in a ULT.

5. what is the best frame for my money?

I like the intelli frames, haven't really used any of the others (RPG, Cerberus, etc). Right now I've got a Y-Frame on my mag and I really like it. It is very comfortable and places the gun at a good spot for my style of shooting.

[eXo_oUtSiDeR]

That is partially false.

The frame is also proprietary to the RT classic.

Owning both an RT and RTPro I know.

Reason being is that the rear bolt holding the valve in is an air-through "banjo bolt" and is a larger outer diameter. So the rear hole in the frame is bigger on the RT classic.

Only things you can change on the RT classic are the barrel, forgrip, airline, sight-rail, and foregrip rail. The body, body rail, frame, and valve are proprietary.

The pic eXo posted is more of an RT ULE.
An RT Pro looks like the top one in this:



The bottom one is my RT classic and it has an aftermarket frame.

Yes but it can be drilled out to fit the banjo bolt and a spacer can be bought from agd to allow a standard fieldstrip screw to fit in a banjo sized hole. It can be done haha trust me my classic has a chimera on it .

[CockerCraze]

more questions......

1. which frames can use the ULT?
2. which frames can have pneumatics installed easily? Can you make a single trigger frame a pneumag?

[BiNumber3]

1) Usage of the ULT should only depend on the valve, so any frame if im not mistaken
2) People have installed pneu on pretty much most mag frames, intelli n various other 90 degree frames, there is a great tutorial by cyberave i believe for installing on an intelli.

[DamianTC]

you asked before about the cocker to mag barrel adapter. You basically screw your cocker barrel into the adapter and it turns the barrel into a twist lock. The bore size on the adapter may be different than the barrels. I thought of that before aswell. If you got the money, just buy a ULE body, its already cocker threaded

[BiNumber3]

the bore in the adapter should be similar to that of a cocker or ule breach i would think, so larger than or perhaps as large as the largest barrel bore, since most guns are like that already (with screw in barrels), i doubt it'd affect the barrel bore.