a bit of a rant/help needed

**Spider-TW** · 03-22-2010, 10:39 PM

I can't think of anything in a pneu that would affect velocity at low (chrony) firing rates. Sounds more like a valve/reg problem. Which valve is it and which bolt and on/off does it have? What LPR are you using?

Leaky hoses will have to be fixed. With good parts and a well working valve, you usually just need to match up the distance of the ram from the sear with the capabilities of the LPR you have. Some LPRs need a little more of a gap between the sear and the ram than others.

Custom pneus are pretty particular. You have to weigh who built it against how much you paid for it to figure out if you got a bad deal or not. Some people put all the parts together but just can't get it all tuned together or have a problem they are ignoring (like bad hoses or a sticky valve/reg).

You can post some pics or send it off to one of the guys that tune pneus regularly.

**i8pie2day** · 03-22-2010, 10:47 PM

it's an xvalve, and even if there were holes in the LPR hose, would that still not affect velocity? i'm not sure who built the pneu... it is an xvalve with lvlX... could it be the bolt spring or spacers or something (again not too familiar with mags so please forgive me...) LPR looks to be a stock WGP (i think that is it...) and i think it has the stock on/off (which on an xvalve i believe is an RT on/off...) and would a poorly shaved down sear possibly be the cause of the problem?

**maniacmechanic** · 03-23-2010, 12:15 AM

if it was sold as a out of the box shooter / add paint & air ; yes you should demand compensation , maybe even a little labor time ( did you buy it here ? )
The LPR / Pnu side shouldn't affect the velocity , +/= 60 fps is way off for a marker that should go +/= 3 fps , it may affect consistant firing though

**Watcher** · 03-23-2010, 12:55 AM

The pneumatics only trip the sear and control when the gun fires, not how it fires. If the velocity is spiking and very inconsistant is has something to do with the valve, most likely the reg piston needs a new o-ring.

Before you go toying with the pneumatics or opening the valve, dump about 10-15 drops of oil in the ASA, air it up, and dry-fire it a few hundred times. Seriously, I've "fixed" literally dozens of automags with just air and liberal amounts of "'Mag juice".
I oil mine evey time before I go play, and I never have issues over the chrono or in game.

If that doesn't help the velocity, go to the AGD main website (airgundesignsusa.com), find the tab that says tech support, click on Manuals and Blow-Up Diagrams, and find the one labeled "ReTro Valve - Exploded view".

You definitely want to replace the reg piston o-ring, and while you have the diagram up check the rest of your seals. If they are brown, they are bad. If they are white or just a little yellowish, they are still good. Add oil and put the valve back together.

**kcombs9** · 03-23-2010, 06:46 AM

should be noted your LPR sounds like it is turned up too high if the hose is popping off.

IMO if I were you Id remove the Pneu mod put the sear arm back on and make sure the gun functions 100% with out the pneumatics. then add them back in, turn the LPR off, air it up and turn it up slowly tell it fires then turn it up another 1/4 turn.

**Ando** · 03-23-2010, 07:58 AM

Depending on the what you 2 worked out and what was described about the marker. Only you can make the compensation call. As far as all the problems you've had with it, especially the feedneck issue which is plain BS if you ask me, I would ask for one. Again, it all comes down to what was said during the deal and his description of the marker.

As for the problems.

velocity issues

Most of the time oil will fix 90% of the problems with a mag, especially if it's been neglected. Add 10 drops of oil to the QD attached to your valve then dry fire it a good 20 times to circulate the oil through the valve and out the front (remove your barrel when doing this). See if that fixes your spikes....If that doesn't work, change your reg seat oring (34). It's usually sitting in the reg seat holder (32) or could be on the reg itself. Unscrewing the halves will gain you access to the oring. You can also use the picture to make sure you have everything installed properly as well.

not-shooting-every-time issue

That's all with your grip and the pneu inside of it. That's something you need to troubleshoot or send it to someone to do it for you. I suggest you do it yourself (only way your going to learn how the damn thing works). It could be something as simple as adj your MPA-3 forward or aft or tweaking the air pressure. Like what Spider said. If it didn't come from a known person that does good work. You'll have to un-screw what ever the amateur did. My best guess is the MPA-3 is sitting to far back and not tripping the sear like it should be.

We can talk you through almost anything. You just need to let us know exactly what it's doing or we'll be chasing our tails around.

**Bigwooly1013** · 03-23-2010, 08:50 AM

Pictures of the pneu setup could also be a useful tool. Since most pneu setup contain the same parts however there are several different sources out there they could have come from. There are also many different ways to modify the ram for the piston and what not.

I had issues the 1st time i put my pneu together i had my lpr up so high it was using way to much force on the sear and after about 100 shots or so it knocked the piston right out.

It was a good learning experience though.

Now i have mine tuned up and I love it. It was a love hate relationship till i learned it all though.

**Frizzle Fry** · 03-23-2010, 07:07 PM

Not sure why nobodies asked yet, but what's your tank output? If it was setup with a 700psi output tank and you're using a 1200psi output tank (or vice versa) valve and LPR tuning will be needed. In fact, some LPRs won't function properly at all with a 950psi+ input, even if the company claims they will.

I have a pneu'd R/T that I put a foregrip regulator on to feed the LPR, and a line from the bottomline to the rail/valve. It lets me use a 1300psi input pressure while remaining easy to tune, plus the pneu-RT effect (when done right) is just nuts.

**i8pie2day** · 03-23-2010, 07:37 PM

the tank output was below 950 i know that....

i think the not firing was due to the ram (i shall call it that because i don't know what else to call it) or whatever trips the sear, was not hitting the sear every time due to the hole in the microline which caused it to not get enough air to cycle....

as for that seal... i'll check that out.... do i need any tools to take the reg off the valve?

Also, should i try oil first, or should i try check the seal first?

**Ando** · 03-23-2010, 08:13 PM

Do the oil fist. Install a mech frame and get your velocity fixed before you tackle the pneu grip.

Your not using reballs to tune your velocity are you?

**i8pie2day** · 03-23-2010, 08:39 PM

Originally posted by Ando

Do the oil fist. Install a mech frame and get your velocity fixed before you tackle the pneu grip.

Your not using reballs to tune your velocity are you?

nah i was using paint... and would just manually engaging the sear (liek with my finger or a needle or something_ be the same as putting a mech frame on? (i dont have a mech frame)

**Watcher** · 03-24-2010, 02:10 PM

Originally posted by i8pie2day

as for that seal... i'll check that out.... do i need any tools to take the reg off the valve?

Also, should i try oil first, or should i try check the seal first?

Oil first, then check the seal.

The reg and valve halves unscrew from each other by hand. The only tool you may need is a pick to remove some o-rings in hard to reach places.

If you need to take off the back cap to get to the reg piston and springs you'll need a 1/8" allen wrench (same one for the frame screw and field-strip screw).

a bit of a rant/help needed

a bit of a rant/help needed

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