How important are trigger stops on a pneumag?

[Loneassassin]

I've been having trouble with my pneumag chuffing when shooting fast, and I ordered an RT on/off to help deal with that, but I was also thinking that maybe adding trigger stops would help too. I've always liked a fairly long pull on my electros and other semis, as long as it's a soft pull. But I think in the case of my pneumag it might be a hinderance? The trigger barely has to move to fire the gun, but it's being allowed to go back quite a bit further.

I was just thinking that maybe my ram is holding the sear (and consequently the on/off) open a little to long, impeding its reset rate. It's probably also requiring the MSV lever to push the trigger forward for a longer period, increasing the recharge time. Am I thinking correctly about this or will it not make a difference?

[kcombs9]

I've been having trouble with my pneumag chuffing when shooting fast, and I ordered an RT on/off to help deal with that, but I was also thinking that maybe adding trigger stops would help too. I've always liked a fairly long pull on my electros and other semis, as long as it's a soft pull. But I think in the case of my pneumag it might be a hinderance? The trigger barely has to move to fire the gun, but it's being allowed to go back quite a bit further.

I was just thinking that maybe my ram is holding the sear (and consequently the on/off) open a little to long, impeding its reset rate. It's probably also requiring the MSV lever to push the trigger forward for a longer period, increasing the recharge time. Am I thinking correctly about this or will it not make a difference?

Your correct, what I would imagine is happening is your not releasing the trigger all the way. I would think trigger stops would help but Iv only done one pneu mag conversion, I did have stops on my trigger and had none of the problems you are describing.

[Bigwooly1013]

stops and magnets are the two things that would help you here. Limiting the trigger travel on mine all but eliminated my similar issues. Then once i added the magnets my problems went away completely.

[Loneassassin]

Thanks guys. I guess I'll be off to the hardware store to buy a couple set screws. I have a couple 4-40 screws left from my pneumag project, but I'm thinking those might be a tad small considering they'll be used as stops for the trigger. (Plus that's the only small tap size I have). I don't want to strip them out from the force of them hitting the frame. Your thoughts?

[Pneumagger]

Trigger stops are an important part of the tuning balance of the pneumatics. In most markers you can think of the trigger as a boolean function... yes/no... on/off. In a pneumag the trigger pull directly acts on a valve (MSV). The length of pull (how much does the valve open up and flow), how long you hold it when you shoot (dwell), and what your LPR is set at all factor in to how you set your trigger stops.

Somebody firing very fast might require more pressue to actuate the ram piston because the dwell on the trigger pull is very swift - more pressure means more air gets to the ram in a shorter time. Someone who wants a lighter trigger pull might have to shoot a lower rate of fire and increase the trigger travel (opening up the valve more so that more air can flow).
You can get away with an amazingly short crisp trigger pull and high ROF if you up the LPR pressure but it will be more crisp. It's all a balance and trigger stops as well as ROF and LPR pressure play heavily into it.

If you find your setup functions very well at lower rates of fire but chuffs more as increase ROF, tuning trigger stops & LPR would be the first spot to look.
A less likely cuplrit might be an LPR having trouble regulating 850+ psi down to 50-80psi... remember, most LPRs typically were designed for ~400psi markers.

I've found that if you want to KISS then simply ditch any ULT in the setup. A sufficiently light trigger comes from the pneumatics already and the RT on off flows more and provides more positive reset force for the ram. This is even true for classic valves... go with the RT on/off. If you are concerned about reset time from a lengthy trigger pull, put a QEV between the ram and MSV. Generally, it doesn't hurt much if any to have your trigger travel a little further than needed - better to error on the side of function than chuffing.

[Spider-TW]

Thanks guys. I guess I'll be off to the hardware store to buy a couple set screws. I have a couple 4-40 screws left from my pneumag project, but I'm thinking those might be a tad small considering they'll be used as stops for the trigger. (Plus that's the only small tap size I have). I don't want to strip them out from the force of them hitting the frame. Your thoughts?

You could try the 4's and if they strip you can re-tap them for 6's. 4's should be ok though; you shouldn't be knocking it that hard.

Iirc I used 6's because there was enough room and I hate dealing with size 4 anything. No. 4 taps just look like a pita waiting to happen.

[Pneumagger]

Thanks guys. I guess I'll be off to the hardware store to buy a couple set screws. I have a couple 4-40 screws left from my pneumag project, but I'm thinking those might be a tad small considering they'll be used as stops for the trigger. (Plus that's the only small tap size I have). I don't want to strip them out from the force of them hitting the frame. Your thoughts?

I vote for 4-40's with plastic tip inserts. Or even delrin screws altogether. Try not to scratch up your frame.
Mcmaster sell tham cheap and ship fast. Your hardware store or an electronics store might have them too.

[Loneassassin]

Cool, thanks for all the responses guys!

[Loneassassin]

Grrrrrrrrr....I installed my new RT on/off today and something is not right. When I aired it up it rt'd at about 18cps, then the bolt wouldn't reset and it leaked down the barrel and/or out the back of the gun. I tried adjusting the field-strip screw to no avail. It's possible that my Lpr isn't supplying enough pressure to the ram, but I don't know. Actually, I'm pretty certain of that. The tickler is maxed out all the way right now, and I can hear the piston hitting the sear, but the sear won't budge. I'll take my grips off later and verify this.

Any ideas?

[Loneassassin]

For anyone interested, the trigger stops made a world of difference. I re-installed my ULT on/off (the RT on/off was locked in place - don't know what that was all about...). With the stops tuned, I can walk the trigger as fast as I want and the ULT keeps up. This is as fast as my electro on semi

I think a case could be made that trigger stops are an essential piece of tuning even if you're just running a non-pneu'd ULT mag. The lengthy trigger pull otherwise limits the on/off from resetting fast enough.

[Bigwooly1013]

glad to hear you're fixed up.

I love my pneumag. I can shoot as fast as i can move my fingers and folks always thing it's an electronic gun.

It still makes me grin everytime i play.

[Spider-TW]

glad to hear you're fixed up.

I love my pneumag. I can shoot as fast as i can move my fingers and folks always thing it's an electronic gun.

It still makes me grin everytime i play.

I like it when someone says "one of those guys was shooting too fast", and the refs look at your marker and say "oh, that's a mag" and go looking for someone else. Twice the someone else has been my son with the pump mag.