Return HPA tank back to service

[factoid]

I've got a NitroDuck 3000PSI HPA system for my Mag that I bought way back in 1999. i stopped playing paintball regularly around 2002, so I've never had to deal with getting this rig hydro tested and visually inspected.

I found a place in town that will do it for a good price, but they want me to remove the valve on the tank first. They'll pull the valve off my SCUBA tank, but they won't do it on a paintball tank, I have to bring it in with the valve already removed.

Needless to say I've never done this before and I'm curious about how to do it correctly. Obviously I need to depressurize the tank first, which I can handle. But I've never disassembled a tank before. How do I do it without wrecking my gear?

Does the entire regulator assembly have to come off, or just the valve on top of the regulator? Do the two even separate? I have no idea.

They say they won't take them off because most paintball tanks don't have a just a hex-nut to unscrew like a scuba tank, and the factories put them on super tight.

That leaves me concerned that they won't put it back on as tight as they found it. I'm assuming it will be safe because they'll pressurize it during the hydro test, but it still makes me nervous.

One other thing I'm curious about: Will any HPA bottle work with the hilt-mounted regulator I already have? I know that this bottle will have reached its 15 year lifespan in a couple years, so when it's time to replace it can I just get any old HPA bottle and screw it into the regulator or do I replace both pieces?

[factoid]

I'm a bit of a n00b at HPA it seems. I'm looking around a little and I'm kind of confused about newer HPA systems...the last one I bought was over 10 years ago and they seem to have changed.

My setup requires two pieces. There's a regulator attached to the hilt of my marker and it's got a gauge on it and a nut that I can adjust to alter the air pressure flowing into the valve on my Mag.

I've also got a gauge on the bottle itself. The one on the marker reads from 0-1000 I think...maybe a bit higher. The gauge on the tank reads from 0-3000 which is the total tank pressure so I know when i need to refill it.

I'm looking at online shops and when I see air systems for sale all I see are tanks with a single valve on them. Is the two-piece think just a dinosaur from a long-gone age? Can you literally these days just buy a HPA tank and screw it into the same threads as a CO2 tank?


EDIT: Nevermind, I got home and looked at my tank and I was mistaken, the entire regulator is mounted on the hilt of the marker including the input and output gauges. I guess newer tanks just come with everything built right onto the bottle, which would be pretty nice. I see where you can buy new regulators for bottles, but I think the setup I have is probably fine...just a little old fashioned.

[maniacmechanic]

Show us a pic of said reg & will tell ya what kind it is

[WUNDERWAFFEN]

1st of all, its been almost a decade since it has been pressurized, the seals probably wont hold & need to be replaced since the rubber or whatever has hardened with age. Do you have any old seals/orings for the regulaor and if so how did they hold up.
2ndly, source new spares for the regulator if you really want to keep it. If you cant find rebuild kits for it you might want to upgrade to something newer.
3rd, if both of the above are good you might just want to buy a new 3k bottle rather than re-investing money into getting the old one hydroed & since it sounds like it will reach it's 15th birthday soon.

To remove the regulator you will need a rubber strap wrench, two pieces of wood & a vice. Use the wood on the sides of the regulator to protect it from the clamps of the vice. Clamp the regulator so that the half that is closest to the tank is clamped. You do not need to super tighten the reg in the vice just tight enough so it cannot spin in the vice. The regulator screws clockwise into the bottle so if you have your tank upside down into the vise you will need to twist the bottle counter clockwise. Once you break the loctite it will still be tight unscrewing & might have up to 2 inches of threading. Take your time- it is a PITA but is rather simple to do. After you pull the reg put some packaging tape over the opening in the tank to prevent anything from getting into it. Now that you took of your reg you might as well install it yourself after the hydro test since some hydrotesters screw up the reg and leave tool marks when installing. Just put some loctite on it, if you want (some people don't if they need to remove the reg often for travel) and tighten it back up all the way until the reg is flush against the tank again.

I would suggest looking into a 4500 psi system if that is an option for you. Pretty much holds 50% more air than the same sized 3000 psi tank. Mags are air hogs. & the prices on those systems are alot cheaper now than they were when you stopped playing. Make sure you pick up a HP tank 850 psi output or more, most now are low pressure (LP) because of the newer guns. I would recommend Guerilla Air.

[factoid]

1st of all, its been almost a decade since it has been pressurized, the seals probably wont hold & need to be replaced since the rubber or whatever has hardened with age. Do you have any old seals/orings for the regulaor and if so how did they hold up.
2ndly, source new spares for the regulator if you really want to keep it. If you cant find rebuild kits for it you might want to upgrade to something newer.
3rd, if both of the above are good you might just want to buy a new 3k bottle rather than re-investing money into getting the old one hydroed & since it sounds like it will reach it's 15th birthday soon.

To remove the regulator you will need a rubber strap wrench, two pieces of wood & a vice. Use the wood on the sides of the regulator to protect it from the clamps of the vice. Clamp the regulator so that the half that is closest to the tank is clamped. You do not need to super tighten the reg in the vice just tight enough so it cannot spin in the vice. The regulator screws clockwise into the bottle so if you have your tank upside down into the vise you will need to twist the bottle counter clockwise. Once you break the loctite it will still be tight unscrewing & might have up to 2 inches of threading. Take your time- it is a PITA but is rather simple to do. After you pull the reg put some packaging tape over the opening in the tank to prevent anything from getting into it. Now that you took of your reg you might as well install it yourself after the hydro test since some hydrotesters screw up the reg and leave tool marks when installing. Just put some loctite on it, if you want (some people don't if they need to remove the reg often for travel) and tighten it back up all the way until the reg is flush against the tank again.

I would suggest looking into a 4500 psi system if that is an option for you. Pretty much holds 50% more air than the same sized 3000 psi tank. Mags are air hogs. & the prices on those systems are alot cheaper now than they were when you stopped playing. Make sure you pick up a HP tank 850 psi output or more, most now are low pressure (LP) because of the newer guns. I would recommend Guerilla Air.

Thanks for the advice. It hasn't actually been 10 years since it was pressurized, probably 3 or 4. The tank itself still has a bit of air in it...around 300PSI or so. I played with this gear once a few years back and had no idea the hydro was out of date. The guy at the field was nice enough to give me a couple 1500 PSI fills which was enough for the short woods-ball games we were playing, but he wouldn't fill it to 3000.

I screwed the tank in last night and was able to get enough pressure out of it for the gun to cycle, so I know it still works.

I will snap a pic of it when I get home tonight and upload it.

I'm definitely considering just buying a new compressed air tank, but I know I can get this one tested for 20 bucks and it will last me another 2 or 3 years until it hits 15 (found out the tank was original manufactured in june 98, even though I bought it summer of 99).

Seems like most high quality 3000PSI tanks are in the 100-150 range. You can get a Guerilla for 50 bucks, but that's so low it makes me nervous. I would do 4500 PSI, but I don't think my local fields fill that and my SCUBA tank is only rated for 3000. I don't spray that much paint in a game, so my 3000 usually lasts a while.

[factoid]

So I ended up just buying a new tank. I found a great deal on a new one that cost me little more than the hydro test for my ancient one.

It has left me with a bit of a new problem though: How to connect it to my mag.

I assume these new screw-in HPA bottles use standard CO2 bottle threads, right? Which means I need to pull the old fixed regulator off my Mag and put the bottom bottle adapter on again right?


My problem here is that I never liked how that adapter connected to the air valve. You either have to run a hose or a microline straight from the grips up to the air valve, but then it's constantly in the way of my hand as I'm holding it.

Back in the CO2 days I used to get around that by using an expansion chamber. The bottle screwed into the bottom adapter, which ran a microline hose into the expansion chamber, which was screwed into a vertical adapter, which has a microline hose going into the air valve on the mag.

I could set this all up again but am I going to have pressure problems if I'm using a CO2 expansion chamber with compressed air? I'm assuming that the regulator on the tank SHOULD pressurize the entire system to 850 psi regardless of the volume, but I have no idea what that will do to my air efficiency.

High school physics tells me it shouldn't matter at all...except that I'll probably be wasting a couple dozen shot's worth of air when I depressurize the marker.

My two obvious but unappealing alternatives are: screw the HPA bottle straight into the vertical adapter, but I don't like that weight distribution, even when I did it with 12oz CO2 tanks. Or I could screw my remote line into the vertical adapter.

That might work OK, but again I'll have issues with the coil rubbing against my hand.

I really want to have either the bottle or the remote coil screwed into the bottom bottle adapter.

Any suggestions? How would you do this?

[OPBN]

If your new HPA tank is a screw in type tank you will need a bottom line ASA. So, yes, the stock duckbill ASA that came with it will work. Howver, it is nice to be able to degas without removing the tank every time. Consider an ASA with an on/off feature such as a CP Direct Mount ASA with on/off. Run macroline from this into a front Bike grip or other front grip and then run a line from the vert adapter into the valve. Lines are out of your way. Here are examples of what you need:

http://www.actionvillage.com/031-138-0049

http://www.actionvillage.com/036-0560-5

[factoid]

If your new HPA tank is a screw in type tank you will need a bottom line ASA. So, yes, the stock duckbill ASA that came with it will work. Howver, it is nice to be able to degas without removing the tank every time. Consider an ASA with an on/off feature such as a CP Direct Mount ASA with on/off. Run macroline from this into a front Bike grip or other front grip and then run a line from the vert adapter into the valve. Lines are out of your way. Here are examples of what you need:

http://www.actionvillage.com/031-138-0049

http://www.actionvillage.com/036-0560-5

Cool, that's basically what I have, so I'll just leave it on.

Took my scuba tank into the dive shop to get hydro tested yesterday. Hopefully I'll get that back in a couple days and then we'll see how everything comes together!

i've ordered a crapton of parts and now I think I probably have to get a new mask, or at least a new lens too because I found a crack in mine.

So far I've ordered:

Guerrilla HPA tank
Harness
Remote
Autolube
Parabolic powerfeed plug
Classic parts kit
Hopper
Elbow
Barrel condom
New squeegee


Most of it doesn't amount to much price-wise. Action Village has really great prices.

[sjrtk]

Good to hear you got it sorted out quickly post pics when you get everything put together.

[factoid]

Good to hear you got it sorted out quickly post pics when you get everything put together.

I definitely will. I'm hoping I'll have everything in this week, but I had a mental malfunction with the paypal order on Action Village so I had to re-submit an order. Kinda sucks they didn't send an email that my order didn't process correctly.

Ended up cancelling my harness and remote in favor of a new thermal lens to replace my cracked one. I figure keeping my eyes trumps the weight savings.

I ordered some stuff last week from AGD. How long do they usually take to ship? I got USPS shipping which from IL to here should be about 3-5 days, plus whatever their lead time to ship is. All I ordered from them was some o-rings, a new powerfeed plug and a bottle of Autolube...nothing major.

When I get some more cash and go back for the remote line does anyone have a suggestion for a shoulder stock? I'm hoping I can find something lightweight, maybe tube aluminum.

I've got the stock classic rail which I believe is stainless steel, but it's never had a backbottle adapter on it. Can I just drill holes for that to attach a stock? or is there a better way?

[sjrtk]

When I get some more cash and go back for the remote line does anyone have a suggestion for a shoulder stock? I'm hoping I can find something lightweight, maybe tube aluminum.

I've got the stock classic rail which I believe is stainless steel, but it's never had a backbottle adapter on it. Can I just drill holes for that to attach a stock? or is there a better way?

You should have your order soon usually takes a day or two longer than USPS says anyway. A stock classic rail is aluminum you can drill it but the better option is to mount it to the grip frame http://paintballproducts.stores.yaho...cblocstoc.html is were i have gotten them befor. You can mount the ASA on to the stock, they are pretty cheap and comfortable to.

[athomas]

The classic stock rail has two partial holes drilled in the back. Just knock the remaining aluminum out to open the holes for a back-bottle adapter for your shoulder stock.

For mounting on the bottom of the grip, just get an on-off type ASA or just a duckbill type ASA. Then run the air line to the bottom of a fore grip connected to a vertical ASA. The vertical ASA will allow the upper air line to go to the valve without interfering with your hand at all. I run my steel braided line directly from the bottom ASA to the valve on my emag, but I run the loop backwards instead of forwards to keep it away from my hands. It is almost unnoticeable to me when I use it. On my retro mag, I run the line to the valve via forgrip. This is the preferred method for compactness and it has a cool factor.


Make sure you use good air lines for any connection to the valve. Do not use micro-line. It can cause starving. Use high grade macroline or steel braided hose(preferred).

[OPBN]

Skip the shoulder stock/remote and just use the tank as a stock.

[factoid]

The classic stock rail has two partial holes drilled in the back. Just knock the remaining aluminum out to open the holes for a back-bottle adapter for your shoulder stock.

For mounting on the bottom of the grip, just get an on-off type ASA or just a duckbill type ASA. Then run the air line to the bottom of a fore grip connected to a vertical ASA. The vertical ASA will allow the upper air line to go to the valve without interfering with your hand at all. I run my steel braided line directly from the bottom ASA to the valve on my emag, but I run the loop backwards instead of forwards to keep it away from my hands. It is almost unnoticeable to me when I use it. On my retro mag, I run the line to the valve via forgrip. This is the preferred method for compactness and it has a cool factor.


Make sure you use good air lines for any connection to the valve. Do not use micro-line. It can cause starving. Use high grade macroline or steel braided hose(preferred).

Thanks for the tips!

I think for some future upgrades I'm going to punch out the holes on the stock rail to mount a shoulder stock. I would really like to find one that's snap-on or collapsable or something. I like to break down my gear at the end of the day and put it into a case, so I need to track one down that snaps on and off quickly. I also thought of a quick and easy way to build one out of some thin conduit. I can just bend a tube into a shoulder butt, weld it onto a straight tube and tack that onto some ASA threads, which I could then just screw into a duckbill. Might be a fun project. I can probably scam a few feat of scrap conduit from one of the cabling contractors I work with. There's not much they can do with 2 or 3 feet of conduit. It normally just gets tossed in a recycle bin.

I will also look into the macroline upgrade. I've probably spent enough for now though . I've never had a problem with the microline starving my gear before. I'm not a lightning trigger and it's a classic valve so it doesn't have the superfast recharge needs of like an RT or an X-Valve. I'm pretty sure my mag actually came from the factory with the microline elbows installed. It's possible that could have been a dealer upgrade though...I bought this mag from my high school paintball club so I'm not sure where it all came from.

[factoid]

Skip the shoulder stock/remote and just use the tank as a stock.

That's what I'm doing for now. I discovered a crack in my mask lens so I needed to replace that first and had to cancel the remote and harness.

The reason I was thinking I wanted a remote was because the HPA tank I bought is about 5 pounds and I'm putting it into a stock duckbill ASA with no drop forward (my old HPA regulator had a dropforward built in and it was lighter) so I'm worried about it being back-heavy.

Depending on how I feel about the weight I'll either just get a drop-forward or the remote setup and stock.