non recharging AIR

[DaveA]

Hi guys,
I have an AIR, Smart-mag AIR, with a completely new oring batch, but an old on/off brass crown piece, and purple powertip insert, venturi bolt.
I can get single shots, but anything like 2 bps chokes. So I haVe some serious recharge issues. I don't know if the trigger plate is exactly right, just because I haven't checked it in a long time, but I hope you guys may have a couple of suggestions as to what is wrong.
Thanks
and of course, now that I've put it out there I'll go check the forum archives...lol
DaveA

[Ando]

when aired up. You should have a small gap between them (thickness of a credit card).

[DaveA]

yeah, it's not the learning curve...
And I don't think it's the distance between the trigger and the rod but there is a little space, I'll check if it's more than a creditcard. I'm using an old benchmark double finger, with the stupid onesided safety.
The only thing that I can think of that I haven't changed or checked out besides the trigger rod length is the condition of the springpack. I mean, you know- what else is there in there? Maybe some clogged airflow in the steel braided hose... Probably a hunk of teflon tape right past the fitting...I'll look. But short of that what else can cause chuffing once the orings are all changed? On-off not working properly?
Thanks for the help. btw

[DaveA]

Ah. I think I found it. The dial-a-welt I am using is NOT a D-A-W, I think it's a external adjuster from a AirAmerica reg. I'm using a ANS back that came in some trade or deal, and it had this adjuster on it, but the spring pack is sitting INSIDE the adjuster, which means the springpack isn't even making contact with the piston!
We'll see.
Thanks again.

[BigEvil]

Dave - the spring pack should be inside the adjuster, but if its not an AGD peice get rid of it. If you are still having issues call me.

[Ando]

lol...Dave I have one of those adj your talking about and even ran into that problem before. There are 2 types. One for thee ANS gen x2 regs which have a longer thread count and the inside is hollowed out to accept the longer ANS spring reg packs. The mag one looks exactly like it but the inside isn't milled as much and has less thread exposure. Since the inside of the ANS reg adjuster has a much deeper cavity and longer thread count, it's not compressing the much shorter mag spring pack enough to get it working properly. What you can do is install washers inside and see if you can get it working. Not sure if it'll help but it's worth a shot. I love those ANS thumb adj which I'm trying to get for all my classic valves.

EDIT: Does it look like this?




EDIT:2 Booo...not sure if we're talking about the same thing after re-reading your post.

As for your ANS back. I wasn't aware that ANS made a reg back for the Mag. I know Air America made a SS one. Shockteck and Labs made an aluminum version. I'd actually like to see what you have there.

I know the Air America Vigilante regulator back is a perfect fit for the mag back as well.

[athomas]

Also, make sure you are using a new/good bolt spring. They do get weak. When weak they cause bolt stick issues which include massive chuffing and also affect recharge. The bolt spring is a consumable item that needs to be replaced regularly.

[DaveA]

just changed the bolt spring, so I'm pretty sure it's the ANS back thing. and yes Ando it'd the same one you pic'd. I may try the washerpack, but more likely just use the stock adjuster. The ANS back is cut so wide open you can see the piston from the seat side. Not that that matters...
Thanx BigEvilFather- I saw that cute pic of your baby. I hope we can hook on the field soon and play some ball! Scott do you have a pump milled body rail in your pile of stuff?
I'm going to regas tonight. Thanks

[Hobbez]

I went to hell and back all summer over this same issue with the wife's valve. 1 bps was great, but try to get on the trigger, evan as little as 2-3 bps, and it chuffed and the balls rolled out of the barrel. After replacing every seal and ring, a new piston, spring pack and replacing litterally every part in the valve, I found a tiny piece of teflon behind the valve pin. It was stuck in there in such a way that it didnt evan come out when you popped out the spring, so I never noticed. Now that its out, the valve works like new. So, check really careful for bits of tape or crud and the like.

[factoid]

I went to hell and back all summer over this same issue with the wife's valve. 1 bps was great, but try to get on the trigger, evan as little as 2-3 bps, and it chuffed and the balls rolled out of the barrel. After replacing every seal and ring, a new piston, spring pack and replacing litterally every part in the valve, I found a tiny piece of teflon behind the valve pin. It was stuck in there in such a way that it didnt evan come out when you popped out the spring, so I never noticed. Now that its out, the valve works like new. So, check really careful for bits of tape or crud and the like.

Side note, is there a trick to pulling that spring out? I've never been able to remove the one in my classic valve. It's working fine, but I'd like to clean it out just to keep it in good condition, but it always feels like I'm going to wreck the spring if I keep stretching it.

[Hobbez]

I just hook it with an o-ring pick, down in the spring not just under the pin, and pull and twist gently. They are pretty tough.

[DaveA]

I haven't checked for blockage in the pin area, though I did at one point have the pin and spring out. But I finally got a stock adjuster and put it in with high hopes... dashed hopes, too.
Same chuffing without the benefit of a first full shot, so it's all none cycling chuff. I haven't yet checked the trigger pin length and setting.
I swapped out the old old crown top brass piece in the on/off for the newer version, and all the orings have been swapped. I'll have to see if I have the stock back and try it with that instead of the ANS back.
The only thing that can think that might be wrong is the springpack. Since i had a parted out air america raptor at one point and probably some regs, it's possible I'm using an inline reg spring pack. I'll have to look on the agd site...
It's very sad, and what's funny is my friends are all reverting to mags from their shockers and karnies.
I think we're going retro with the best to force a skill push...

[factoid]

Sounds to me like it's definitely a springpack problem.

There's not much else it could be at this point, but I'm not familiar with the construction of the reg back you've got.


Do you have access to an AGD back if your buddies are shooting mags too? Screw one on and see if it changes your fortunes. I'm sure someone around this site has an AIR back they'd sell. It shouldn't cost too much.

[Coralis]

Does the air source you are using work with any other gun? It could be that your ASA is not pushing the pin in far enough or too far and choking off your air supply. I used to have this problem with an old nitroduck bottle.

[finnmanpa]

Dave,

Jason from Red Raiders here.

I parted out my pumpmag awhile back. I have a red benchmark factory pump milled rail if you have a stock one to trade. Let me know asap, I can have ot up at Dougs house next weekend on the 11th.