Can the sear be removed from the system?

[hill160881]

If i ran a ram vertical, directly under the on off assembly, and used a normally open noid to operate it, would the shot chamber charge fast enough to fire if the sear was not there? Is there enough air flow through the on off assembly to fire a shot when the shot chamber is not already charged?

So when the marker is aired up the ram will hold the on off close(off). When you fire it, the ram would vent allowing the on off pin to move down and the shot chamber would then be hot, firing the marker.

Has anyone tried this or something like it?

The reason is you could tune for efficiency better as the dwell now controls how much air is used with each shot, instead of the size of the shot chamber and the pressure it is at.

[Drix]

If i ran a ram vertical, directly under the on off assembly, and used a normally open noid to operate it, would the shot chamber charge fast enough to fire if the sear was not there? Is there enough air flow through the on off assembly to fire a shot when the shot chamber is not already charged?

So when the marker is aired up the ram will hold the on off close(off). When you fire it, the ram would vent allowing the on off pin to move down and the shot chamber would then be hot, firing the marker.

Has anyone tried this or something like it?

The reason is you could tune for efficiency better as the dwell now controls how much air is used with each shot, instead of the size of the shot chamber and the pressure it is at.

I think you're ignoring the bolt side of the equasion, but yes I believe this is possible, I've often toyed with the idea using an autococker setup, but could not find any particular advantage.

[vf-xx]

I think you're ignoring the bolt side of the equasion, but yes I believe this is possible, I've often toyed with the idea using an autococker setup, but could not find any particular advantage.

He's not quite, The setup he's talking about would be like effectively running around holding the trigger down and letting up and pulling it again quickly.

I don't think you're gaining all that much though. I haven't done a full study of the flow path and energies involved, but I expect that with how tight the air passages are in the valve, you may actually loose some efficiency unless you de-volumized the dump chamber.

Right now there is some residency time of the air in the dump chamber. Not much, but likely enough to change the flow characteristics.

I'd be interested to see an experiment though.

[pbjunky99]

I would think that the hardest part of that system would be finding a ram small enough to fit through the space that the sear used to interact with the on/off while still being able to hold a proper seal so the ram wouldn't leak. And mounting the ram in such a way could be difficult as well. But if you can figure a way to make it work, more power to you. I was told a long time ago, the only thing holding us back from greatness is each other.

I will keep an eye on this thread and hope you make some progress.

[Drix]

I would think that the hardest part of that system would be finding a ram small enough to fit through the space that the sear used to interact with the on/off while still being able to hold a proper seal so the ram wouldn't leak. And mounting the ram in such a way could be difficult as well. But if you can figure a way to make it work, more power to you. I was told a long time ago, the only thing holding us back from greatness is each other.

I will keep an eye on this thread and hope you make some progress.

I thought about this and wondered if it could be done with an ANS cocker ram as opposed to a pneumag ram- You could also have a custom one made.

[p8ntbal4me]

Hill;

I toyed with this idea as well,. but lost interest in it.

My idea was similar to yours with the EP ram for the ON/OFF,. but using a E-Blade solenoid to hold the bolt back like DRIX mentioned.

If you were to use a EP solenoid,.. you need a 4-5 way. Thinking off the cuff,.. you want 2 rams. One for the bolt and one for the on/off.

The on/off ram as well as the bolt ram would actuate at the same time on the same dwell value.

If you look at the slow motion video of a sear moving you will get what Im saying.

Id like to see you figure this one out,.... it would be interesting to have some other platform of actuator system

[hill160881]

Hill;

I toyed with this idea as well,. but lost interest in it.

My idea was similar to yours with the EP ram for the ON/OFF,. but using a E-Blade solenoid to hold the bolt back like DRIX mentioned.

If you were to use a EP solenoid,.. you need a 4-5 way. Thinking off the cuff,.. you want 2 rams. One for the bolt and one for the on/off.

The on/off ram as well as the bolt ram would actuate at the same time on the same dwell value.

If you look at the slow motion video of a sear moving you will get what Im saying.

Id like to see you figure this one out,.... it would be interesting to have some other platform of actuator system

Why would i need a 4 or 5 way noid. If the on off assembly is off, then why would you need the sear to hold the bolt back. Or another ram. The MPA-3 ram fits really nice. And if the noid is normally open then it would hold the on off pin up until you activate the noid, then the noid closes and vents allowing the on off pin to move down and shooting the marker. Then the noid shuts off, after its cycle, re-pressurizing the ram and pushing the pin up, shutting off the flow of air to the shot chamber. Again no air in the shot chamber, no sear needed to hold it back. So only one ram needed and any standard spool or popit board. In theory.

I could test it buy using a normally open 3 way noid, instead of the normally closed one i use now. Put that into my ego mag with a sear with no hook. I just need to find the right noid.

[pbjunky99]

I thought about this and wondered if it could be done with an ANS cocker ram as opposed to a pneumag ram- You could also have a custom one made.

If this is the case I would hope that the ANS ram would work. Getting custom rams made could get pricey, if they are not ordered in bulk.

[pbjunky99]

I just looked at the ANS autococker ram. Does anyone know how long they are? The pic of it on ANS's site makes it look quite long. Heres the like of the one I'm talking about.

http://www.ansgear.com/Autococker_Ram_s/300.htm

[hill160881]

why wont the MPA-3 work?

[Dover]

I just looked at the ANS autococker ram. Does anyone know how long they are? The pic of it on ANS's site makes it look quite long. Heres the like of the one I'm talking about.

http://www.ansgear.com/Autococker_Ram_s/300.htm

The one you are referring to is the ANS "Mini Ram" and it's pretty much one of the smallest; smallest Cocker rams i saw were the Hybrid Half Pint and Evil (both out of production)

why wont the MPA-3 work?

Not enough force ?

Most electronic grip frames for the Automag require a modified on-off assembly; this was provided with the Boo-yah and CenterFlag's HyperFrame

[hill160881]

Not enough force ?

Most electronic grip frames for the Automag require a modified on-off assembly; this was provided with the Boo-yah and CenterFlag's HyperFrame

Wrong. Plenty of force. I can Prove it.

Here a MPA-3 Running on a RT on off at 25+ bps. At 75 psi LPR pressure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoQsSpacNp0

[pbjunky99]

I use the ULT on/off with my epmags so force isnt a issue. Is the MPA-3's ram small enough and long enough to fit through the hole that the sear uses to push the on/off? I dont think it is but I havn't looked at it in that way before.

[hill160881]

very close and if not the ram could be modified to fit through the hole in the body.

The ram is 1" long and has a 1/2" diameter, if modified can have the input on the side, and the one on the back plugged.

Also the speed of the ram is increased by the rt effect, so a ULT may not work with this theory because it reduces the rt effect.

[p8ntbal4me]

Why would i need a 4 or 5 way noid. If the on off assembly is off, then why would you need the sear to hold the bolt back. Or another ram. The MPA-3 ram fits really nice. And if the noid is normally open then it would hold the on off pin up until you activate the noid, then the noid closes and vents allowing the on off pin to move down and shooting the marker. Then the noid shuts off, after its cycle, re-pressurizing the ram and pushing the pin up, shutting off the flow of air to the shot chamber. Again no air in the shot chamber, no sear needed to hold it back. So only one ram needed and any standard spool or popit board. In theory.

I could test it buy using a normally open 3 way noid, instead of the normally closed one i use now. Put that into my ego mag with a sear with no hook. I just need to find the right noid.

You need to have SOMETHING to hold the bolt back in the event of runaway. Its been explained in several threads years ago why you need the clip on the sear to remain in good standing vice having a corner that's worn and rounded. It does make the bolt and valve malfunction.

The reason for a 4-5 way is because you are going to need 2 actuators. Since you mentioned EP rams,.. I figured you would use EP for both rather than my thought of using a e-blade setup (one pancake noid and one pneumatic noid). 4-5 way solenoids are set up to accommodate a single dwell time to do multiple open and closed port operations in the same cycle. Specifically, you can look at the way a EP solenoid works on the front end of a cocker.

You COULD get away with a 3 way,.. but with the duty cycles paintball markers use,.. you will want something that has the ports, spool, coil, and exhaust valves to get a quicker response than the dwell value you set in the controller board.

A good example is the Angel markers. They can run off a 3-way. But they ALWAYS have used a 4-way at the least. Most of them used a 5-way.