Leak - comes and goes as it pleases?

[ProFalcon]

First off - setup: Xvalve, lvl 10. medium spring.
I forget what carrier I have in, but when I purchased the mag it leaked when aired up, but the leak stopped when the trigger was held down. I changed carriers and got the leak to stop. I would have changed the 7 oring, but I dont have any spare parts aside from carriers and springs, at the moment.

When I first air it up, sometimes it leaks a bit, sometimes not. Usually not. But as I am playing, sometimes I will hear it start leaking and it might take anywhere from 1-5 shots to get it to stop. When it leaks, it isnt always with the same severity, sometimes alittle, sometimes a fair amount, but never a big leak. Relatively speaking, even when its at its worst, its not that bad.

I did some searching and couldn't find anything. I'm thinking I might need a new lvl 7 oring and retune my carriers, but I wanted to see what the consensus was, and furthermore, where do I get a repair kit? Is there even a chance a local store would have one?

Also, it will be a few days before I can get a chance to test any theories, as I'm out of town for a few days, and although I have my laptop, I don't have my mag.

[Ando]

Pull a few of the shims out of the lvl 10.

[ProFalcon]

what does that do?

[Ando]

Fix your leak

[athomas]

Yes, take all the shims out of your level 10 powertube area. They can cause intermittent leaking if the bolt stem vent hole is close to the sealing edge of the oring. Once the shims are removed, check the tuning and make sure you are using the largest carrier size that does not produce a leak. Remember to always use the same white carrier oring when changing carrier sizes. If you change that oring, you need to retune your level 10 setup (carrier size).

[ProFalcon]

I tuned the carriers when i received the mag originally to stop a leak, after removing shims, should I retune the carriers again?

[athomas]

If the leak was caused by the bolt stem vent hole being exposed, it can sometimes be covered up by using a carrier size that is too tight. Depending on your setup, it still might function properly but be randomly inconsistent from time to time. Once you remove the shims, you should check to ensure that you indeed have the largest usable carrier size installed. That way you can be sure that your valve is tuned for optimal performance and that any future problems will probably not be due to a level 10 issue.

[ProFalcon]

arent shims just responsible for how far forward the bolt travels before it vents? I don't understand how we know that thats whats causing the leak. Doesnt make any sense at all to me. when the bolt (powertube?) is at rest, the shims have nothing to do with where the air is sealed.

[Ando]

[ProFalcon]

the shims have nothing to do with the carrier, no? and aren't the only seals that are relevant (when the powertube is at rest) are the two orings on the carrier (one inside the carrier and one outside the carrier). If the oring outside the carrier was leaking, the gun would leak down the barrel constantly. Depending on how the powertube settles after a shot, the inner carrier oring may allow a leak.

[athomas]

The shims sit in front of the carrier assembly and add thickness to the front of the carrier, which puts the sealing oring surface farther back in the powertube. Since the oring sits in front of the bolt stem vent hole, pushing the carrier and oring farther back shortens the distance that the bolt needs to move for the hole to get past the oring and release air. If you put too many shims in the powertube it pushes the carrier and oring back so that the sealing surface of the oring is on the edge of the vent hole while sitting at rest. Since there is some slight movement in the position of the oring and carrier assembly (its not a fixed assembly), this can cause a random leak.

Removing the shims puts the distance back in front of the vent hole for the carrier oring. This ensures a secure sealing surface. The thickness of the shims is enough to fix a leak and even if none are installed and there is a blockage in the system, the bolt will generally move far enough to allow the hole to get past the oring to release air anyway. Therefore, it is usually best to run the level 10 without any shims installed at all. Shims should only be used in extreme cases where something is out of spec and causing an unusually long distance for the bolt to travel before it can release air.

[FOOGLEMAN]

Running a level 10 without shims will cause failed bolt resets when the system is activated ( It wont chuff) this is why 2 shims are recommended in the layman's tuning guide.

[ProFalcon]

what you are saying makes sense, athomas, but isnt removing shims just a way of solving a problem that is actually caused by something else? If the oring on the carrier isnt sealing properly, giving it more distance by removing shims could solve the problem. However, doesn't this essentially nullify the level 10, like foogleman said? the shims adjust the sensitivity of the level 10, more shims means more sensitive. if there are no shims, then it will never chuff to protect paint.

[Ando]

Running a level 10 without shims will cause failed bolt resets when the system is activated ( It wont chuff) this is why 2 shims are recommended in the layman's tuning guide.

Layman must know mags And your completely wrong in your assumption.

what you are saying makes sense, athomas, but isnt removing shims just a way of solving a problem that is actually caused by something else? If the oring on the carrier isnt sealing properly, giving it more distance by removing shims could solve the problem. However, doesn't this essentially nullify the level 10, like foogleman said? the shims adjust the sensitivity of the level 10, more shims means more sensitive. if there are no shims, then it will never chuff to protect paint.

So what's actually causing your problem then? If it's not your shims it's the carrier oring, if not the carrier oring then a on/off issue, if not an on/off issue then either a bent lvl 10 stem, worn sear or rail bushing. All those will cause it. Figure it out yourself if all your going to do is question what were telling you. The shims is the first step in the process and is 99% the culprit when someone is having a leak issue like you posted.

Instead of fighting tooth and nail just pull the damn things out, re-tune and tirp the lvl 10. It if doesn't reset properly THEN you add shims to fix the reset issue.

AGD just made a generic tuning guide for the not so inclined to follow. There's nothing wrong in using the generic tuning guide but what do you want...A finely tuned valve or a generic one?

[ProFalcon]

So what's actually causing your problem then? If it's not your shims it's the carrier oring, if not the carrier oring then a on/off issue, if not an on/off issue then either a bent lvl 10 stem, worn sear or rail bushing.

I know its not a bent lvl10 stem, or worn sear, or bushing. Since its inconsistent I think its more likely a carrier oring issue than an on/off issue. Although it could be that too.

All those will cause it. Figure it out yourself if all your going to do is question what were telling you.

Sorry, I'm not the kind of person who accepts advice without questioning whether it makes sense or not. I've seen some pretty messed up things happen to people's markers because they blindly took advice and turned up a reg and blew seals or something. If you only want to advise people who blindly take advice, then don't look here.

The shims is the first step in the process and is 99% the culprit when someone is having a leak issue like you posted.

I didn't know that, good to know, as the only other case I could find of this problem was solved by a new carrier oring. Advice like this is why I posted.

Instead of fighting tooth and nail just pull the damn things out, re-tune and tirp the lvl 10. It if doesn't reset properly THEN you add shims to fix the reset issue.

Don't have the mag right now, for one. As I posted originally....
And I'm not "fighting tooth and nail", I'm trying to understand why removing shims would correct the problem to further my understanding of how mags work so next time I get a problem, I'm that much closer to being able to understand whats wrong on my own. I'm here to learn, not just get a quick fix and not understand why it worked. If removing shims didn't guarantee making the level 10 less sensitive, then I would pursue that immediately. However, I think it makes the most sense to pursue a fix that has zero negative side effects first.

AGD just made a generic tuning guide for the not so inclined to follow. There's nothing wrong in using the generic tuning guide but what do you want...A finely tuned valve or a generic one?

Not sure what you mean by this, but I don't think removing a component that is reccommended in almost all setups to be a "finely tuned" valve nor a "generic" one.

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