Boardless electro-pnuematic automag. Possible?

[rawbutter]

[leloup]

Assuming it all worked, one potential problem I see is that you have the loading ball activate your second switch. What if the ball breaks? All the paintball goo will gum up the switch, and you would have to disassemble the entire marker. When the bolt moves over the switch and you still have your finger on the trigger, it would also tell the ram to fire, wasting battery and creating unnecessary wear. It'd be like a little jack hammer going off in there every time it fired.

[bbotts77]

It's an interesting idea. However, MS#2 would get shredded by the bolt or bolt spring when the bold returns.

[leloup]

I don't think the bolt spring would influence, as the switch would be farther up, where the ball drops. The spring stops before that point.

[Frizzle Fry]

Maybe it could double as a ball detent

[Nanotech]

Electrical & computer engineer here. I'm busy and don't have time for a full breakdown, so the short answer is yes, but not with switches.

It has been done by an enterprising gentleman on here whose post I cannot manage to find. He built a circuit around a 555 timer, a very simple integrated circuit that produces a timed signal. This signal correlates to both the dwell and the ROF. Using a few resistors, capacitors, and a bit of math, the timer can control the solenoid. Eyes produce an analog (continuous 0-5v) signal, which once converted to digital (either 0 or 5v) can be used to shut off the timer when a ball is not chambered. All of this, using a trigger microswitch, MPA-3, and SY070, was built into a classic frame. Fully-auto only, IIRC, but a great sleeper.

tl;dr Yes, is do-able and has been done, but it does require some electronics knowhow. If you would like, I can lay out some more details later.

[kcombs9]

what frame do you have?

a cap is optional depending on the noid/board used.

A UTB is very small

if you don't want your LPR in the frame I see no reason you cant fit a battery and UTB in ANY frame.

Hill did a EP sleeper in a classic CF frame.

[TwilightG]

Electrical & computer engineer here. I'm busy and don't have time for a full breakdown, so the short answer is yes, but not with switches.

It has been done by an enterprising gentleman on here whose post I cannot manage to find. He built a circuit around a 555 timer, a very simple integrated circuit that produces a timed signal. This signal correlates to both the dwell and the ROF. Using a few resistors, capacitors, and a bit of math, the timer can control the solenoid. Eyes produce an analog (continuous 0-5v) signal, which once converted to digital (either 0 or 5v) can be used to shut off the timer when a ball is not chambered. All of this, using a trigger microswitch, MPA-3, and SY070, was built into a classic frame. Fully-auto only, IIRC, but a great sleeper.

tl;dr Yes, is do-able and has been done, but it does require some electronics knowhow. If you would like, I can lay out some more details later.

I believe this was done by Spider-TW. He has an even more extensive writeup on MCB (under the username Spider!)

sorry that I don't have any links to threads but it should be relatively easy to find.

[rawbutter]

Wow. Thanks for all the info, guys.

I found Spider-TW's thread and looked at his set-up. I think that's pretty much EXACTLY what I want to do (even though his set-up doesn't have eyes). Only problem is I think I'd be in way over my head.

I'll have to think this over and weigh my options. I was heading in this direction because I thought it would be cheaper/easier than getting a UTB and putting a board into my pneumag, but after looking at Spider's thread, I'm not so sure. Even if it ends up being cheaper, it would take a lot of time to figure everything out, and time=money to me right now.

Nanotech, you have any interest in a commission job?

[hill160881]

I wanted to do this using a switch that was tripped and reset on the pull. They are available but hard to find. They are designed to activate and deactivate on the pull stroke and the release stroke. So it would be two shots per pull. Also no capacitor is needed with the SMC noid. They will hit high 20s without it. You only need a cap if the noid is a clapper or large 3 way. I could use a mac33 as there would be way enough space with no board.

I could also design a cam on the back of a trigger to do the same thing with a standard microswitch. Then the speed of the pull will determin dwell but if it is longer than 10 ms it will be fine and a longer dwell up to infinity will not effect the marker efficiency only the noid. Add a tension release trigger to insure a certian amount of pull force to keep the dwell short enough to keep the noid cool and done.

The only other issue is that the noid is only 5 volt so a small voltage regulator would work and they are so small that it would fit on top of the plug for the battery.

The gears in my head are turning and I for see a very fast electro/mechanical in the future.

Here is the general idea I had.

[hill160881]

Please dont say that this is impossible. Im to busy to build this at the moment.

[Spider-TW]

Please dont say that this is impossible.

Definitely impossible.

There's lots of ways to time mags. While we try not to let the sear push up with the bolt out, a good bolt spring usually covers that problem, so all you have to do is trip it in the first place.

While it's fine to put 9vdc on the little SMCs for 10ms out of 60, they do overheat as you leave them on longer.

As long as you are mounting switches, you could also use some break beam eye pairs like you get out of disk drives and such to time the sear.

My timer circuit was semi-auto only, as it is essentially two parallel monostable timers and has to be re-triggered each time.

The hard part is making sure that you can't re-trigger the sear during the 50ms or so that the reg is charging the dump chamber. From the outside, that looks the same as it is ready to fire, unless you put a little pressure switch in there. :)

Then again, the timing on Hill's anti-mag might make it all much easier.

[hill160881]

The mac33 would be my choice as a tester noid as it is stronger and I have several. With 9 volts I wont need a cap for sure, haha.

If I have time this weekend I will see about hammering out a prototype. I have all the parts.

[rawbutter]

I'm so jealous you guys actually know what you're doing. All I want is an electric trigger that shoots semi when turned on and stops shooting when turned off.

[DevilMan]

The mac33 would be my choice as a tester noid as it is stronger and I have several. With 9 volts I wont need a cap for sure, haha.

If I have time this weekend I will see about hammering out a prototype. I have all the parts.

You sure you have everything??? Or do I need to open the shop again?

DM