ULE Custom breaking too much paint.

[Brad Quillen]

I'm reposting this from the Romper Room message board :).
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My 'Mag breaks paint all the dang time, but my g6r is doing fine...

...this happens during cold/cold & wet weather. So I originally though it was weather related.

1.) Is this a common problem for mags?
2.)Any ideas on how I can make it gentler on paint?

I have already switched from the stock spring to a longer one. The foamie seems OK. I have tried different barrels. I wonder if it's not ball stack clipping, and larger paintballs would help... but it's "field paint only" at my field .

I am using an AGD stock detent, and 2 shims in my Level 10.

I have already been told to check the detent, which I just did. It doesn't appear that the edges of the detent are intruding into the breach.

Any other ideas??? Dual detents maybe?

[Brad Quillen]

I just read about the level 10 a little bit on the AutomagsUK.com site. They said that the Level 10 bolt is .685. I have been using a smaller barrel, and there is an obvious ring of wear around the bolt.

Could bolt/barrel size mismatch be contributing to the problem? Although I had tried different barrels, none of them were smaller than .685.

Gosh I really want to get my 'Mag all happy and killy again!

I am going to post this on PBN, too, just to get as much info as possible...

[OPBN]

Define cold. I have played with my Mags in weather down to about zero. In my experience, anything below 25-30 degrees is sketchy at best and anything below 20 is a waste of time. I spend more time swabbing out my barrel than I do actually playing. Cold play is tough for most markers. The day I can remember where it peaked at 19 degrees, NO ONE was having very good luck, and we were using cold weather paint.

[Brad Quillen]

Well, it's been misbehaving in 40 degree rainy weather. I played with it all summer without any significant problem. The ONLY thing I changed was I increased the length of the spring to make it "easier on paint."

This morning, I put the old gold spring back in it and shot through two hoppers without a single break. Maybe it's because the paint and the gun came out of a warm house, maybe not. Maybe when Increased the length of the spring I needed to add or remove a shim. I don't know.

I DO know that the issue is NOT chops. The bolt and the feedneck were clean. The ball are breaking due to the detent, the barrel/bolt size mismatch, or an improperly tuned level 10... I THINK. I do not know. I'm going to stick with the shorter spring for now and see if it helps any.

[Justus]

Does the bolt actually extend into the barrel on a shot? I'm talking about a cocker threaded barrel.

I use a .684 barrel sometimes with no problems.

[OPBN]

Perhaps a stupid question, but did you size the paint? Also, Is is possible you are double feeding? Do you have the large or small o-ring on the detent? There are two o-rings that come with the stock detent. If you are using the small of paint, perhaps you need to switch to the smaller one to increase the amount that the detent protrudes into the breech.

[Brad Quillen]

Thanks OPBN. The paint is about .684-683. I have no clue what size of O-ring I have on the detent. I'll check into it.

[Hobbez]

are you using a force feed hopper? Too much pressure on the ball stack with small paint may allow half of a second ball into the breach area. This and a not quite tuned lvl10 will chop a lot of paint.

[Brad Quillen]

I was using an egg 4. I guess that qualifies as force fed.

[athomas]

Remove the shims from the level 10 anyway. You don't need them.

Use the longest bolt spring that allows the gun to cycle 20fps below your desired velocity setting. That will guarantee that you are using the most gentle spring while maintaining consistent performance.

Even a gold spring won't chop under most conditions. However, if the bolt can accelerate past the 1/4" point, the softness disappears. This is where barrel breaks occur. They can be due to balls rolling past the detents due to under sized balls, or due to brittle paint being jammed into a barrel that is too tight. Field paint can fall into this category. Inconsistent paint sizes or misshaped shells can spell disaster. Even if only 1 in 400 balls is oblong or oversize, it can be a problem if the weather conditions are right to make the paint extra brittle. To combat this, use an oversize barrel. Your accuracy won't suffer but the breaks will go way down and will probably disappear altogether if the barrel is large enough to accommodate the largest paint..

[Brad Quillen]

Remove the shims from the level 10 anyway. You don't need them.

Use the longest bolt spring that allows the gun to cycle 20fps below your desired velocity setting. That will guarantee that you are using the most gentle spring while maintaining consistent performance.

Even a gold spring won't chop under most conditions. However, if the bolt can accelerate past the 1/4" point, the softness disappears. This is where barrel breaks occur. They can be due to balls rolling past the detents due to under sized balls, or due to brittle paint being jammed into a barrel that is too tight. Field paint can fall into this category. Inconsistent paint sizes or misshaped shells can spell disaster. Even if only 1 in 400 balls is oblong or oversize, it can be a problem if the weather conditions are right to make the paint extra brittle. To combat this, use an oversize barrel. Your accuracy won't suffer but the breaks will go way down and will probably disappear altogether if the barrel is large enough to accommodate the largest paint..

Well, dude, I actually do need those shims. My level 10 wouldn't reset without 2 shims in it. The gun would just completely quit during the middle of a game and I'd have to push the bolt back into place with a swab or my finger. I

I'm already using the red spring, though it's trimmed down a little bit. I did get accidentally cut it a bit too short, but it's still longer than the gold spring. The cut end of the spring is on the bolt.

I was using a .685 barrel with .683 paint, so I don't think that's the problem. I think it's partially the weather, with some other potential complications (ie. ball detent). I did switch to a smaller carrier to slow the bolt a little bit via friction. I have also added ANOTHER shim to get the bolt to vent a little earlier. My understanding is that this will let the bolt vent a little earlier in the cycle.

I'm gonna see what difference these changes make on the field.

[athomas]

Well, dude, I actually do need those shims. My level 10 wouldn't reset without 2 shims in it. The gun would just completely quit during the middle of a game and I'd have to push the bolt back into place with a swab or my finger. I

I'm already using the red spring, though it's trimmed down a little bit. I did get accidentally cut it a bit too short, but it's still longer than the gold spring. The cut end of the spring is on the bolt.

I was using a .685 barrel with .683 paint, so I don't think that's the problem. I think it's partially the weather, with some other potential complications (ie. ball detent). I did switch to a smaller carrier to slow the bolt a little bit via friction. I have also added ANOTHER shim to get the bolt to vent a little earlier. My understanding is that this will let the bolt vent a little earlier in the cycle.

I'm gonna see what difference these changes make on the field.

If you need shims to make the bolt reset, then you have level 10 bolt issues. Shims are a band-aid fix for other problems. If the gun fires or chuffs in any way and won't reset, then shims aren't the answer. Shims allow the bolt to move forward far enough to release air. If the gun has fired, it has done that. The fact that it won't reset is usually due to a carrier that is too tight. Quite often a carrier that is too tight is used to compensate for leaking caused by too many shims installed. Always use the largest carrier that does not produce a leak. Never use the carrier size to make the bolt easier on paint. That is what the springs are for.

A barrel match within 0.002" is great if your paint is super consistent. A 0.685 barrel for 0.683 paint is not nearly enough buffer for odd sized paint, if that is a problem with your field paint. Field paint is not usually known for its consistency. You should be using a 0.687 or 0.689 barrel. Try one and I'll bet your problem goes away. I actually use a 0.693 or 0.696 barrel for most of my shooting. I never get breaks and my accuracy is great.