E-Mag triggers and HES sensor location?

[OPBN]

Have you followed this thread?

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2793248#post2793248

I had considered using a Dremel on the stock trigger before I got the TL63.

Yep: http://automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=260442 Post #6....

[athomas]

No matter where you place the HES, you still need the same thickness of trigger to hold the adjuster. By moving the HES back, all you are doing is moving the trigger closer to the handle. The limiting distance is based on the mechanical requirement. You can adjust the trigger rod so that you can fire the gun with the trigger stopping just in front of the grip. That is your minimum distance. Now you adjust your electronic stop so that it stops the trigger just in front of the trigger rod. Once that is accomplished, adjust the magnet to activate the HES at that location. That is the closest you will ever get, no matter what setup you have.

[Tunaman]

No matter where you place the HES, you still need the same thickness of trigger to hold the adjuster. By moving the HES back, all you are doing is moving the trigger closer to the handle. The limiting distance is based on the mechanical requirement. You can adjust the trigger rod so that you can fire the gun with the trigger stopping just in front of the grip. That is your minimum distance. Now you adjust your electronic stop so that it stops the trigger just in front of the trigger rod. Once that is accomplished, adjust the magnet to activate the HES at that location. That is the closest you will ever get, no matter what setup you have.

But this is certainly not the way to adjust an Emag trigger. You need to have a little play before the shot, then the fire, then a little play after the shot. Deviating from this adjustment will cause the Emag to be unreliable. Period.

[BigEvil]

The solenoid generates a magnetic field regardless of the polarity. Having it wired correctly only helps minimize the chances of the HES picking it up and reading it as trigger pulls. The noid creates a fairly strong magnetic fields due to the voltage required to fire the gun.

It is also very difficult to shield out a magnetic field. This idea has been discussed at nauseam when Lornecash developed Xmod. Turns out it is easier to 'redirect' one rather than to try to block it out. Either way, you dont gain much even if you could. The system is very limited. You are not going to gain anything that FIX in Xmod doesnt remedy.

Ideally, an optical switch would have been better in the Emag.

[OPBN]

But this is certainly not the way to adjust an Emag trigger. You need to have a little play before the shot, then the fire, then a little play after the shot. Deviating from this adjustment will cause the Emag to be unreliable. Period.

I'm not looking to adjust an emag trigger.

Sometimes you seem totally unable to realize that people are looking at ways to improve the system. It isnt a criticism of the system, but nothing is perfect. TBH, I have zero skills when it comes to making a trigger, so unless someone with machining and teching skills, cough cough, were able to take this up, its only talk anyways.

Im just spitballing ideas and trying to get some conversation going on it. I could just say screw it and put an Ego frame on my Mag and call it a day since essentially thats more of the feel that I am trying to get. But instead, I am trying to see if there is any way to improve within the framework given.

[Tunaman]

I'm not looking to adjust an emag trigger.

Sometimes you seem totally unable to realize that people are looking at ways to improve the system. It isnt a criticism of the system, but nothing is perfect. TBH, I have zero skills when it comes to making a trigger, so unless someone with machining and teching skills, cough cough, were able to take this up, its only talk anyways.

Im just spitballing ideas and trying to get some conversation going on it. I could just say screw it and put an Ego frame on my Mag and call it a day since essentially thats more of the feel that I am trying to get. But instead, I am trying to see if there is any way to improve within the framework given.

You are absolutely right. Nothing is perfect. But here are a few things to consider...
1-virtually 100's of trigger designs were tried before AGD came up with this one
2-redesigning the trigger system is basically a waste of time, as most options were already thought of 20 years ago
3- the Emag still commands a high price tag 20 years later. Not many others can say that.
4-almost all that have tried to alter the design from the original have failed miserably. That says alot about the original design.
5-if you want a reliable platform, then stick with stock. If not, then try and use whatever you like and sacrifice reliability...the very thing that separates the Emag from ALL others.
6-you can't always reinvent the wheel. Some things are better left alone. If thwere was a better trigger than the TunaBlade, you guys would have seen it already. The hard work has already been done.
7-changing the cosmetics is fine. But when you try and change the function of the design, more time will be wasted.
8-Quality always shoots straight.

[OPBN]

You're probably right, but doesnt hurt to consider. The design makes it difficult to modify and that's probably why so many are turning to alternate frames to get the job done.

[athomas]

But this is certainly not the way to adjust an Emag trigger. You need to have a little play before the shot, then the fire, then a little play after the shot. Deviating from this adjustment will cause the Emag to be unreliable. Period.

My adjustment works great. It provides the the mechanical movement to trip the sear manually. The stopping distance in front of the grip includes the extra distance past the release point of the sear. The electronic stop provides the stop in front of the trigger rod to prevent hyper action on the trigger. The fact that the rod is shorter than the stock setting and allowing the trigger activation closer to the grip means there is more play in the forward direction to allow ample motion prior to the shot. The whole trigger setting doesn't actually deviate from the AGD way of doing things. It just changes the position a bit. This setting isn't for everyone though. Because there is no forward stop on the trigger, you can't limit the forward motion. At a static starting position, the first pull from a dead stop is a bit longer to reach the activation point. Subsequent pulls are short like any other emag trigger pull but closer to the frame. A forward trigger stop would make this setup work really well and allow you to make those trigger adjustments where the trigger barely moves (although I don't have any of my guns set like that). I actually like a bit of trigger movement myself. It gives me a better feel than vibrating my finger on a stiff lever. :)

[OPBN]

No matter where you place the HES, you still need the same thickness of trigger to hold the adjuster. By moving the HES back, all you are doing is moving the trigger closer to the handle. The limiting distance is based on the mechanical requirement. You can adjust the trigger rod so that you can fire the gun with the trigger stopping just in front of the grip. That is your minimum distance. Now you adjust your electronic stop so that it stops the trigger just in front of the trigger rod. Once that is accomplished, adjust the magnet to activate the HES at that location. That is the closest you will ever get, no matter what setup you have.

True, but as with the case on one of Lukes triggers, you would move the face of the trigger farther back. This would also eliminate the forward travel issues you mention wouldnt it?

[luke]

[BigEvil]

My question is, what is the advantage to using a HES switch?

I believe it was to eliminate the possibility of switch noise (electronic bounce) that is inherent in all micro switch bases triggers. It would have been a true one pull one shot system. Unfortunatley they found out later that it was prone to switch noise from the magnetic field the noid puts off.

[bbotts77]

HES specs

not to hijack the thread, but do any of you know the specs on the HES that's used? I've been playing around with an EP mag build that would use a HES and I think the sensing range on the HES I'm trying to use might be a little too wide. I was just wondering if any of you know the specs on them or if you have a manufacturer's part number I could look up.

[OPBN]

What if you made the cavity that the magnet sits in deeper. Once you adjust the magnet to where it needs to be, mark it and mill the part of that protrudes through the trigger down?

I personally don't have a real issue milling out the trigger guard, but I know a lot of purists would cry. If someone were to come up with a reasonably priced aftermarket one that was designed without it, I would be be down for it. Especially if it had the additional ULE milling like in the bottom of the trigger guard etc.

[OPBN]

not to hijack the thread, but do any of you know the specs on the HES that's used? I've been playing around with an EP mag build that would use a HES and I think the sensing range on the HES I'm trying to use might be a little too wide. I was just wondering if any of you know the specs on them or if you have a manufacturer's part number I could look up.

I have one in front of me, but the markings are so freaking small, and my eyes suck so I can't make it out. If someone can get me the markings I may be able to figure out which one it is and find some simliar.

[bbotts77]

I have one in front of me, but the markings are so freaking small, and my eyes suck so I can't make it out. If someone can get me the markings I may be able to figure out which one it is and find some simliar.

After thinking more on it, it's probably a better idea for me to get a Gauss meter and figure out what I need from there. Since I'm not using an E-mag frame, the HES isn't going to need the same sensing range anyway. Out of curiosity, I still wouldn't mind knowing what emags use, anyway. Thanks.