Removing front grip screws

[debruynda]

Oh I'm so happy with the deal that I'm tempted to not actually give the 2nd to the friend. (I haven't seen the other threads of people mildly complaining about them; this is all just me.)

I'm just really annoyed at how they couldn't make the guns actually work in a rental capacity, and I'm certain it was based on really lousy advice. (The kind you find on a certain other forum full of morons who routinely dispense really, really stupid "advice".)

Rentals still need to be cleaned. Lack of QD isn't a rental feature, it's a rental liability. I'm sure they thought it was a "feature" though. If you're afraid of the hose flogging the player, there are some obvious ways to secure it to the gun. Namely just screwing a retainer into the useless and vacant sight rail holes.

There are steel parts on this gun. You can't just "dunka dem in water and hanga dem up" as your cleaning procedure. This is responsible for the majority of damage on this gun.

I'm pretty sure someone thought it was a keen idea to use an adhesive to attach the rubber grips to the grip frame.

I would not at all be surprised to find red loctite on that front grip frame screw once I get it out.

The gun survived fine, it's just all the stuff done to the gun was clearly based on really shoddy "advice" and didn't need to happen at all. Otherwise beautiful guns tarnished by stupidity.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Dunking in water and drying...man that takes me back...that was the preferred method of cleaning tippman pro-ams and SL-68's back in the day...rust? Screw it, just spray some WD-40 on it and you're good to go...ah...field rental equipment...

[Justus]

Rentals still need to be cleaned. Lack of QD isn't a rental feature, it's a rental liability. I'm sure they thought it was a "feature" though.

My point was, though, that you can still properly clean an Automag even if it doesn't have a QD between the valve and ASA. Just degas the gun, take out the field strip screw, and pull the valve. That braided steel hose is flexible enough to let you get the valve out for routine maintenance. Lack of a QD isn't a liability, it's just a minor inconvenience.

I agree with you that the condition of those guns (from the few pics I have seen) are a direct result of the field equipment manager being lazy and/or completely uninformed.

[blackdeath1k]

Since I missed the original post where these were all sold. Or at least the price of the guns. What did they all go for?

[GoatBoy]

My point was, though, that you can still properly clean an Automag even if it doesn't have a QD between the valve and ASA. Just degas the gun, take out the field strip screw, and pull the valve. That braided steel hose is flexible enough to let you get the valve out for routine maintenance. Lack of a QD isn't a liability, it's just a minor inconvenience.

Sure, you can still do it without a QD.

But a minor inconvenience becomes less minor when it's multiplied by 31 (I think that was the number). And I think it pushes it just above the threshold that separates "OK, I'll pull the valve and clean the innards" from "Nah, screw it." That's first thing I thought when I saw that on there. And I actually *want* to clean the gun. Imagine someone who doesn't even care.

Not to mention if something just ain't right with one valve, you should be able to yank it completely out and slap another one in there and work on the bad one later.

Plus there is no 'out' for any contaminants that get into the ASA/hose. If you get something in there, then you literally have to blow it all the way through the valve. So you can't just clean the valve and purge the line independently. The procedure would have to be to purge the line through the valve, if that's even possible, and then clean wreckage from the valve afterwards.

And it's a convenient place to drop oil in without having to completely remove the tank from the gun. That's how crap gets in there in the first place.

Doable? Yes. Made sense in the larger scheme of things? Probably not.

Since I missed the original post where these were all sold. Or at least the price of the guns. What did they all go for?

http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/m...-automags.html

They went for $110 a pop. It was a great deal.

[OPBN]

I've never seen a QD on any field rental marker.

[blackdeath1k]

Not bad. 110 for a ule mag that just needs some TLC. Well a lot of TLC. Not bad at all.

[vintage]

there's one on ebay, i put up a link in (finds)

[Nobody]

the biggest thing is, tippmann(and their cousins BT series) are KISS guns, as well as you must remember what most fields call their rental fleet, "Shovels". not only do most fields not have a fleet of HPA tanks to fit the guns, add in the fact that unless you wish to equip the entire rental fleet with L10s, proper mag trigger hygiene is a foreign concept to walkons. though it can be an upgrade for the those people who don't have their own equipment yet, but don't want the standard field fare.

either way, a mag is still an expensive field rental and aren't built proof like a Tippmann. QDs or not, these guns are in better hands for those that can truly appreciate them. even putting SS screws to prevent the rust is generally an extravagance for fields.

[GoatBoy]

I feel like I just emerged from a Whiteboard strip. As pessimistic as I am, there's always a worse.

I filed the head off the front grip screw, and then... the rail still wouldn't come off. They had also used some sort of glue to attach the rail to the body. So there's this kind of sticky glue EVERYWHERE on this gun. I assume they were trying to seal the gun up, but they failed miserably, and so now what was left was kind of this mixture of glue + rust + dirt that I still haven't even finished removing from the rail (that's what's on the rail in the pic). Acetone seemed to help soften it up.

That field strip screw required a hammer and vise grips to finally remove. I am certain they used something on that screw if they were going to bother to glue all the rest of it up as well. I do see a few flecks of red. On top of that it was all rusted out anyways thanks to the surrounding glue that I'm sure held any moisture IN the gun.

I haven't even had time to visit the inside of the valve yet.

So anyways, sure, you might never have seen a QD on a rental, but chances are you've never seen a rental fleet of ULE Automags, all with Level 10 bolts. Yes, that is a level 10 bolt on there.

Speaking of stainless 10-32 screws, I picked a handful of them up today after seeing what these mags have been through. $1.97 for 10.

I do not know how any of this ever came to fruition, but whoever was in charge was surely out of his mind.

[yellowmitten]

No doubt theft was the reason for glueing everything together.

[Runamok]

It's not glue on any thing. It's very old paint. I've 2 of these and have had the same problem with the screws. Hey ,HI. is no worse then FL. for salt corrosion and rust. I started replacing all my screws with SS years ago. But come on! stop gripeing about a $110 mag that you could strip down and make twice that parting out. I've already got my 1st running and didn't have to replace any o-rings. If you've ever worked at a field you know what rentals go through. I'll admit maintenance could have been better , but I'm dealing with it. BTW I'm have fun cussing and cleaning, it's been along time since I've had the challenge of cleaning and restoring a Mag in this shape. I used to maintain my friends guns so I've seen several disasters in the past. Work it. I'll be merrily cleaning paint outa Mag#2 and replacing screws. Once I'm done my son and I will have Mags that can't be messed up any worse.

[Spider-TW]

Sure...loaners...gimmie's...parts guns. That's what you think now. A "parts gun" helped spawn two of my all time favorite mags, plus a little money.

They will be lurking in your boxes with the rest of your mags, waiting to replicate.

[skipdogg]

Yeah, no glue or mysteries with mine. Just imagine a rental gun that was NEVER cleaned, EVER. thats the shape they are in. I have never seen anything like it. But it all came off. 3 orings disintigrated and a destroyed bolt bumper is the worst of it. It cleaned up pretty good all things considered.

[GoatBoy]

I'm pretty sure I can tell the difference between old paint and a glue/sealant. The base stuff was: white, extremely sticky/tacky, and not water soluble. It was consistently applied along the length of the body and the rail, and between the grip and the rail. And between the grips and grip frame. The body would not release from the rail, even after soaking in water, until I got some acetone on it. Some of it is still present on the rubber grip which I will happily mail to you, and you can tell me if you think it's old paint after handling it. Maybe they didn't give the treatment to all their mags, but mine definitely has some form of glue on it.

These aren't my first used mags. My suspicion is that that they used this glue/sealant to try to seal the marker up so that they wouldn't have to clean them or something.

ASA screws straight up stripped/rusted out on the 2nd one; not even going to bother with those.

Again, I'm not complaining about the deal I got; my real intention was to speak directly to the large number of jackholes who constantly recommend taking mags into the shower or dunking them in water or something stupid like that. And if anyone is thinking about having rental mags, this is *not* the way to do it.

[skipdogg]

I hear ya brutha. Glad they didnt glue mine!