2 problems, very little RT from x valve and ULT not very light

[Mike D]

Hey all. Pretty new to AGD as I just bought my first mag. Its a ULE with x valve and intelleframe. Also has a ULT.

I bought it used and as soon as I got it home, I gassed it up and pulled off a few dry shots. As soon as I gave it air, it started to his a little and i figured, well maybe it just needs to be cycled a few times. Well it fired off just fine, but the leak never really went away.

Besides the leak the next 2 things I noticed is that the trigger pull was not very light (for being a ULT) and that it had very little RT effect.

to make a long sorry short I pulled the ULT and put in the RT on/off in the and tuned the lvl 10 bolt with no shims and correct carrier. Now no leaks, lvl 10 seems to work fine, but still not very much RT effect. I have a standard reg on my compressed air set up, and have adjusted the input at the valve all the way both directions.

No biggie right, I can still go out and play.

Well, what fun is that if you can't destroy your friends with their ions and their battery powered guns.... am I right??

I put the ULT back in determined to figure it out. I have tried from 0-6 shims (6 would not fit, was using some thicker shims from lvl 10) and no success. Never experienced runaway, slight leak/ hiss is always present, and definitely not a light trigger pull. Not much different from standard x-valve pull.

Do I just need to buy a new ULT kit from AGD. Maybe this one is bad? why is my RT so week on standard x-valve on/off.

Please help. Ive already ordered an x-valve oring kit from AGD just because, who doesn't need spare orings.

Grateful for any advise.
thnx
MIKE

[captian pinky]

first the ult is supposed to get rid of rting when installed properly. when installed incorrectly it will rt.

2nd when you installed the rt on/off what size pin were you using? was it brand new?

there is a break in period for the orings. half the people here will tell you to go buy the ninja regs when what you really need to do is religiously oil your gun everytime you air it up to play. once the orings are broken in and you are using a tank that outputs 850ish you should see the rt.

if you are replacing the orings do not replace all of them. like i said there is a break in period and replacing them will only set you back.

[Cyco-Dude]

Besides the leak the next 2 things I noticed is that the trigger pull was not very light (for being a ULT) and that it had very little RT effect.

to make a long sorry short I pulled the ULT and put in the RT on/off in the and tuned the lvl 10 bolt with no shims and correct carrier. Now no leaks, lvl 10 seems to work fine, but still not very much RT effect. I have a standard reg on my compressed air set up...

as pinky mentioned, you will not get a strong rt effect from a ult on/off. as for the trigger pull being "not very light", what are you comparing it to? you said you were new to automags...have you tried a classic 'mag with standard on/off? there should be a noticable difference in pull weight between classic, rt and ult on/offs.

anyway, not all valves will bounce at standard hp input pressures (800-850psi). you need to increase the output pressure of the tank to at least 950 psi i'd say before you start to see any reliable bouncing. and even then, some valves won't bounce (usually my rt classic valves).

[athomas]

The air regulator on your bottle has a lot to do with the X-valve's ability to be reactive. It needs a high pressure output and a high flow rate.

What are the velocity of your shots? Make sure you do your tuning at the proper velocity setting. If you have the velocity turned up too high, it will make the trigger pull force higher.

[river031403]

I have a ninja shp reg ANS 68/4500 tank output 1200 I believe did wonders for my setup

http://youtu.be/Cou0e42qNRo

It's for sale if you are interested

[Mike D]

I assume that it is the stock rt pin that comes with the x-valve. But not really sure of the size. is this something I measure or is it marked?
the ult on/off pin is, i assume, also just a standard size.

Thnx for the info on the orings.

[Mike D]

as pinky mentioned, you will not get a strong rt effect from a ult on/off. as for the trigger pull being "not very light", what are you comparing it to? you said you were new to automags...have you tried a classic 'mag with standard on/off? there should be a noticable difference in pull weight between classic, rt and ult on/offs.

anyway, not all valves will bounce at standard hp input pressures (800-850psi). you need to increase the output pressure of the tank to at least 950 psi i'd say before you start to see any reliable bouncing. and even then, some valves won't bounce (usually my rt classic valves).

I swapped the stock x-valve and the ult back and forth a few times. Not much difference in pull weight. Only other guns we have are E-spyder, ion, pro-lite and pro-carbine (the real tippmans), pulls little heavier than spider electro grip, no where near the ion. I am intrigued by the output pressure on the bottles, is this why the flatline system had adjustable pressure?

[Mike D]

The air regulator on your bottle has a lot to do with the X-valve's ability to be reactive. It needs a high pressure output and a high flow rate.

What are the velocity of your shots? Make sure you do your tuning at the proper velocity setting. If you have the velocity turned up too high, it will make the trigger pull force higher.

I jimmied with the pressure reg on the valve a lot while making changes. Probably not a great plan from what you are saying. I have a crono so I will check it out this weekend. I can say that I did troubleshooting from a lot of different velocity settings. started with the pressure set so low that it wouldn't cycle and worked my way up. Not a lot of difference in trigger pull, but did notice a lot of variations in shoot performance. Ive logged a lot of info, just trying to sort through it. Its sounding like my tank output pressure is the solution for my RT issue.

I believe the hissing sound and leak I have are around the ult on/off since it goes away once I swap it of the standard RT on/off. Would a leak have anything to do with how heavy the ule trigger feels?

also the only oring I can't figure out how to get to is the very small black one on the pin itself, right in the middle. Is it worth changing?

[captian pinky]

when you are putting the rt on/off in you are putting the 2 orings in the top correct?

[Mike D]

when you are putting the rt on/off in you are putting the 2 orings in the top correct?

Yes. And they fit one inside the other. Both are clear.

[athomas]

I believe the hissing sound and leak I have are around the ult on/off since it goes away once I swap it of the standard RT on/off. Would a leak have anything to do with how heavy the ule trigger feels?

also the only oring I can't figure out how to get to is the very small black one on the pin itself, right in the middle. Is it worth changing?

If the ULT produces a leak that goes away with the retro on-off, then there is probably a leak in the ULT. The small black oring on the ULT goes in the recess between the two halves. Whe you screw the two on-off assembly halves apart, it will be right there. Take it out with a dental pick or something similar and inspect it for blemishes or dirt. It can be punctured if you aren't careful installing the pin in the ULT. It will most likely be the source of your leak.

The leaking ULT orings won't cause the trigger pull to be stiffer. A blemished oring or a piece of dirt could cause binding on the pin which could cause the trigger to be stiffer, but it is highly unlikely to be that much higher that it will be really noticeable.

The trigger pull force is measured on the trigger where it contacts the trigger rod. It should be around 1lb. If you have a spring scale, you can measure the actual trigger pull force required to fire the gun. It will give you an idea of how much force is actually required so you will know if the force is way higher than it should be. Given that the ULT pin is quite small, the force really can't be very high, especially compared to the classic pin or even the retro pin. The classic pin is about 4lb, retro/X is about 2lb, and the ULT is about 1lb.

[Mike D]

Yes. And they fit one inside the other. Both are clear.

yes, both clear.

[Mike D]

If the ULT produces a leak that goes away with the retro on-off, then there is probably a leak in the ULT. The small black oring on the ULT goes in the recess between the two halves. Whe you screw the two on-off assembly halves apart, it will be right there. Take it out with a dental pick or something similar and inspect it for blemishes or dirt. It can be punctured if you aren't careful installing the pin in the ULT. It will most likely be the source of your leak.

The leaking ULT orings won't cause the trigger pull to be stiffer. A blemished oring or a piece of dirt could cause binding on the pin which could cause the trigger to be stiffer, but it is highly unlikely to be that much higher that it will be really noticeable.

The trigger pull force is measured on the trigger where it contacts the trigger rod. It should be around 1lb. If you have a spring scale, you can measure the actual trigger pull force required to fire the gun. It will give you an idea of how much force is actually required so you will know if the force is way higher than it should be. Given that the ULT pin is quite small, the force really can't be very high, especially compared to the classic pin or even the retro pin. The classic pin is about 4lb, retro/X is about 2lb, and the ULT is about 1lb.

thanks, will take a look at the o-ring this weekend. That thing is super small. Not sure where I would find a replacement. I suppose they are available at AGD's site. I may be able to get a spring scale (or maybe make one from an old food scale.)

Thanks for all the help guys.

[Cyco-Dude]

Yes. And they fit one inside the other. Both are clear.

yes, both clear.

lol you replied to yourself!

[Mike D]

lol you replied to yourself!