Does anyone cut there own springs? I know AGD sells the grey ones to be cut down, but I never hear anyone talk about doing it. I am considering trying it because its relatively cheap and lets me fiddle with my mags more. What is the ultimate goal of grinding your own spring? How do I know when I'm done? Does it make the gun more gentle on paint? I got a Tac-One recently (first x valve) and it breaking more than any classic I've ever owned.
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Like you guessed the ultimate goal is to get it as gentle as can for the paint, in the velocity range you are using. Are you using force feed/electric hopper on your Tac? Using gravity feed will cause more chops, specially if your lvl 10 isn't properly tuned.Originally posted by The Dawg View Post -
All the spring does is reset the bolt. It does nothing towards how gentle it could be on the paint, that is the L10 kit.Comment
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The longer springs counter-balance of the pressure force on the bolt stem. That's why longer springs are more gentle on paint for a given velocity and the bolt will not fire reliably on the level 10 at lower velocities with longer springs.Originally posted by Nobody View Post
Agreed that it doesn't really matter too much on a level 7, except stronger springs mean that the bolt moves slower and bolt dwell goes up.
There is a pretty fair range where bolt springs work well enough, relative to being easy on paint. You shouldn't need much to get in the workable neighborhood of 3/16" beyond the tip of the bolt, - 1/16",+1/8". On a new Tac one body, you should check your paint versus the detent and make sure you're not double feeding and that you still have your foamie if you are using a force feeder.
Last weekend we had some 0.672" paint, which is very uncommon around here. Even my custom 0.675 and 0.680 barrels/inserts were getting rollouts. I resorted to my RT with a J&J twistlock barrel and a good detent and called it "overbore". I have lots of barrels and kits, but my best solution was an old mag with a twistlock.Last edited by Spider-TW; 04-16-2015, 03:03 PM.Comment
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Are your paint breaks caused by chops or barrel breaks? They are two different things. A level 10 will prevent chops, but not barrel breaks. A large enough barrel id and good working detents are key to preventing barrel breaks.
If you want to tune your level 10 bolt spring for optimum softness, that is great, but it really is only needed on really brittle paint.
For spring adjustment:
You want to use the bolt spring that allows you to shoot about 20fps above the lowest velocity that the gun will cycle at. So, if you want to use the gun at 280fps, then your desired lower limit of operation is 260fps. Insert your long bolt spring. Turn the velocity adjuster down before you air up the valve. Then gradually turn up the velocity until the gun will cycle. This is your lower velocity. Measure it. If it is above 265fps, then you will need a shorter spring or you will need to clip the one you have (unless you have red one. They are usually in the correct range). If you clip a spring, only clip half a coil at a time and then try it using the same procedure of starting with a low velocity setting. Make sure you put the cut end of the spring towards the bolt. If you have the short spring installed, and the lower range is 30fps below the desired shooting velocity, I wouldn't worry about using a stiffer spring and would just go with the short bolt spring. If it was much lower than that, I would definately clip a long spring to get closer to the desired range.Except for the Automag in front, its usually the man behind the equipment that counts.Comment
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yeah, i have a minimag with a cut gray spring. it's tuned to be as soft as possible while still being able to feed a paintball into an underbored barrel. the goal is to be more gentle on paint. even with a reset (and gold spring), it's possible to crack the shell of a paintball, which results in a barrel break on the next shot.
you are mistaken. the spring resists the forward movement of the bolt, therefore the more resistance (stronger the spring) the slower the bolt moves forward, which means more gentle on paint. the level 10 kit for all of this is understood.Originally posted by Nobody View PostComment
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oh but it does. the longer/stiffer springs are more gentle on paint.Originally posted by Nobody View Post"because every vengeful cop with a lesbian daughter, is having a bad day, and looking for someone to blame"Comment
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So when you increase the resistance (longer spring), and increase velocity (higher psi going to chamber), aren't you A. Back where you started, and B. Getting less shots out of your tank due to the increased psi. being expended?Comment
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no...while you do have to increase the pressure a bit, that doesn't mean the bolt then moves forward at the same velocity that it did with the weaker spring and lower pressure. those two things don't change in a linear fashion, otherwise there would be no point in spring tuning. this is easy to see for yourself if you have a 'mag with a lvl 10 bolt, some springs, and your finger. put the gold spring in, chrono to 280, insert finger and pull the trigger. now try it with the red spring (or cut gray spring), also chrono'd at 280. you will feel the difference right away.Originally posted by kfletch View Post
less shots out of your tank...it really doesn't matter, does it? how many more do you think you'ld get with a weaker spring? is it worth a barrel break if the bolt pinches a ball and cracks the shell? tanks are big enough, air is free...it's a non-issue as far as i'm concerned.Comment
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Ok I didn't want to get all scientific but, your theory defies the laws of physics. Translational kenetic energy is factored by 2 things, mass of the object and speed of the object. You can't tell me you can propel a paintball 280fps with a bolt moving slower than the same bolt moving faster.Comment
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And yes in fairness I'll try you theory out this weekend. Because I've never needed or been suggested by anyone on here otherwise, to use anything other than the gold spring. Works perfect with a correctly tuned level 10.Comment
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Why do I feel a joke about air speed velocity and a certain Swallow would be perfect here?Comment
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The bolt speed doesn't have much effect on the velocity of the ball. The air released from the chamber does.Originally posted by kfletch View Post
In theory, we should just be able to insert a stiffer spring to slow the bolt and lessen the impact on the paint without affecting the velocity. However, the bolt spring also causes the bolt stem to act like a regulator and restrict the air movement. This restriction of the air reduces its ability to accelerate the ball as effectively so the velocity is reduced. The pressure needs to be increased just to get back to the original set velocity. The ratio between chamber pressure and velocity is different than the relationship between chamber pressure and forward bolt force. This causes the pressure adjustment to increase the velocity at a rate different than the increase in the forward bolt force, so even though the pressure and velocity is higher with a stiffer spring, you never get back to the same velocity/differential force combination as with the lighter spring. The regulator effect of the bolt stem slowing the air release causes some wasted air that follows the ball out the barrel without actually causing any acceleration, which is why the level 10 bolt setup is not as efficient as a level 7 bolt.Except for the Automag in front, its usually the man behind the equipment that counts.Comment
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