Classic valve on/off pin adjustment

[BassdudeBTB]

well, it's usually a bit stiff with new o-rings, and just gets better over time as they wear in. some o-rings are tighter than others though, and you can test the fit by simply pressing the o-ring onto the fat end of the on/off pin.

Yeah you are right, o-rings come out of manufacturing with slight variations in dimensions. I did put new o-rings in recently so that may be an issue as well. Thanks for the input, I will try a few of the spares I have to see how it fits.

[BassdudeBTB]

So I played a few games with it and the orings seem to have broken in nicely. I can sweet spot it if need be and shoot single shots without losing control and bursting off shots. I will need a lvl 10 bolt if I really want to do bursts. I am hesitant though since everyone says they are finnekey at best in Florida... Is this true?
I don't see any definitive descriptions of why and under what conditions, I am just told due to temp changes and humidity here not to bother with it... Is there a way to properly set it up and not worry about it for a while?

[Spider-TW]

So I played a few games with it and the orings seem to have broken in nicely. I can sweet spot it if need be and shoot single shots without losing control and bursting off shots. I will need a lvl 10 bolt if I really want to do bursts. I am hesitant though since everyone says they are finnekey at best in Florida... Is this true?
I don't see any definitive descriptions of why and under what conditions, I am just told due to temp changes and humidity here not to bother with it... Is there a way to properly set it up and not worry about it for a while?

Weather change in Florida??? I've never had any problem with humidity (we got some). I also have not had any identifiable trouble between 110F to 40F. One weekend I shot 2 1/2 cases at Blanding MOUT on two level 10 automags. I only switched for entertainment value between an X-valve and a pneumag. If they are already on the loose side of the seal, getting cold can push them over the edge, but I've never had to go back when the weather warmed back up.

I think going_home runs level 10s mostly. (in Florida, or used to be there :P)

[BassdudeBTB]

Weather change in Florida??? I've never had any problem with humidity (we got some). I also have not had any identifiable trouble between 110F to 40F. One weekend I shot 2 1/2 cases at Blanding MOUT on two level 10 automags. I only switched for entertainment value between an X-valve and a pneumag. If they are already on the loose side of the seal, getting cold can push them over the edge, but I've never had to go back when the weather warmed back up.

I think going_home runs level 10s mostly. (in Florida, or used to be there :P)

That sounds pretty good! Was it difficult to get it right? Was there a break-in period 'till it settled in? I found this to be the case with my on/off...

[Spider-TW]

That sounds pretty good! Was it difficult to get it right? Was there a break-in period 'till it settled in? I found this to be the case with my on/off...

Many people break them in by shooting something like 1000 times, after which you would expect to go to the next size "smaller" carrier. Some people play with them new until they leak and just go prepared. If I want to take a new L10 o-ring on an out of state game, I have polished the mold lines off the inside with a rod and rubbing compound. They are not bad if you take the time to read and understand the instructions and how the bolt works.

If I was limited to a single automag, it would have a level 10 bolt. I still keep a level 7 in a pump, a pistol, and a "classic classic", but anything of medium paint volume and up gets a level 10.

[BassdudeBTB]

Many people break them in by shooting something like 1000 times, after which you would expect to go to the next size "smaller" carrier. Some people play with them new until they leak and just go prepared. If I want to take a new L10 o-ring on an out of state game, I have polished the mold lines off the inside with a rod and rubbing compound. They are not bad if you take the time to read and understand the instructions and how the bolt works.

If I was limited to a single automag, it would have a level 10 bolt. I still keep a level 7 in a pump, a pistol, and a "classic classic", but anything of medium paint volume and up gets a level 10.

Ok thank you! I think I'm going to invest in one.
I plan on doing my homework before any mods or tinkering, especially with AGD products since they are so well thought out.
Could you explain the way you basically sand the mold lines off with rubbing compound? Do you mean like TurtleWax for auto paint? (Not the wax)
What rod would I use? Not a wooden dowel rod right? I have some mini precision files but I feel like they would damage the o-rings...

[Cyco-Dude]

So I played a few games with it and the orings seem to have broken in nicely. I can sweet spot it if need be and shoot single shots without losing control and bursting off shots. I will need a lvl 10 bolt if I really want to do bursts. I am hesitant though since everyone says they are finnekey at best in Florida... Is this true?
I don't see any definitive descriptions of why and under what conditions, I am just told due to temp changes and humidity here not to bother with it... Is there a way to properly set it up and not worry about it for a while?

sounds like a load of nonsense to me. they are fine. no need to prepare your o-rings; just use it. if it leaks, it takes all of two minutes to swap carriers.

the setup issues of the level 10 bolt are way overblown...it's simple to install, and simple to tune. it's a five-minute job, seriously.

[BassdudeBTB]

sounds like a load of nonsense to me. they are fine. no need to prepare your o-rings; just use it. if it leaks, it takes all of two minutes to swap carriers.

the setup issues of the level 10 bolt are way overblown...it's simple to install, and simple to tune. it's a five-minute job, seriously.

This makes me feel a bit better also... I read the instructions & saw the animation of the mechanism and read a bunch of the issues people had and it seemed straight forward to me...
I wasn't sure if they were just not mechanically inclined and making mistakes during setup (some def. were), or if there was a serious problem with the system, which seemed inconsistent with AGD products I have seen so far...
This being my first Mag I didn't know what to believe... There is a lengthy thread on LvL 10 issues so it made me a bit weary to go for it after reading some of the posts.
I thank you guys for your advice on this matter.
I will order one today most likely and post how it goes.
I won't cry about simple crap that is clearly explained in the manual & in videos on youtube either lol.
I'm only going to ask if I get seriously stuck to the point of not using it.
Thanks again everyone for your advice!

[Spider-TW]

There is a lengthy thread on LvL 10 issues so it made me a bit weary to go for it after reading some of the posts.

If you read through that, it is really all the same stuff except muddied by un-associated problems. We tease athomas that his post signature should be his L10 tuning instructions, which are pretty basic and in line with the factory instructions. After about the third time he goes over them, the OP will usually pick it up.

Not that you need to polish the o-rings, but yes fine turtle wax rubbing compound on a smooth rod that is snug fit in the o-ring will take the inside mold line off, which is what breaking it in does. I have a stainless rod that came out of an HP printer. Some of them are not bad to start with. If you can see the line without magnification, it will need breaking in one way or the other.

[BassdudeBTB]

If you read through that, it is really all the same stuff except muddied by un-associated problems. We tease athomas that his post signature should be his L10 tuning instructions, which are pretty basic and in line with the factory instructions. After about the third time he goes over them, the OP will usually pick it up.

Not that you need to polish the o-rings, but yes fine turtle wax rubbing compound on a smooth rod that is snug fit in the o-ring will take the inside mold line off, which is what breaking it in does. I have a stainless rod that came out of an HP printer. Some of them are not bad to start with. If you can see the line without magnification, it will need breaking in one way or the other.

Well, I ordered it and an RT Parts kit just to have extra o-rings and what not...
Looking forward to getting it installed & all tuned up!
Burst fire mode is in sight! My Q-Loader should feed it nicely for about 4 seconds lol!

[BassdudeBTB]

I installed my level 10 bolt and got it working but I need to chrono it to properly tune it. I noticed however, that my sweet spot on my trigger is gone. I turned up the velocity as needed to make it fire and left my shins in the on/off (0.012" total) but no more sweetspotting... I'm hoping the chrono reveals that my velocity is still too low and more pressure will fix it... I did however use my 2 non flatline tanks running about 850 & 950 psi output. My flatline tank is empty at the moment but I run it at 1050 psi output.
I am not certain that velocity adjustment will have any effect on the trigger bounce, I think it's just purely input pressure... With my LVL 7 I can get trigger bounce with these tanks and the 0.012" of shims, so I'm not sure where to go from here exactly.

[Cyco-Dude]

I installed my level 10 bolt and got it working but I need to chrono it to properly tune it. I noticed however, that my sweet spot on my trigger is gone. I turned up the velocity as needed to make it fire and left my shins in the on/off (0.012" total) but no more sweetspotting... I'm hoping the chrono reveals that my velocity is still too low and more pressure will fix it... I did however use my 2 non flatline tanks running about 850 & 950 psi output. My flatline tank is empty at the moment but I run it at 1050 psi output.
I am not certain that velocity adjustment will have any effect on the trigger bounce, I think it's just purely input pressure... With my LVL 7 I can get trigger bounce with these tanks and the 0.012" of shims, so I'm not sure where to go from here exactly.

this is normal; level 7 bolts are more reactive for some reason.

[BassdudeBTB]

But I've seen many mags online ripping off shots with the LVL 10 bolt... How do I achieve that? More pressure?

[Cyco-Dude]

But I've seen many mags online ripping off shots with the LVL 10 bolt... How do I achieve that? More pressure?

more input pressure (from the tank regulator, not by increasing velocity), broken-in o-rings, shorter on/off pin (up to a point). this should be doable with 900 psi, a .750" pin and broken-in carrier and on/off o-rings. this also depends on the frame used (intelliframe is easier to sweet-spot the gun with than a single or benchmark frame, for example). also, practice helps a bit.

[BassdudeBTB]

more input pressure (from the tank regulator, not by increasing velocity), broken-in o-rings, shorter on/off pin (up to a point). this should be doable with 900 psi, a .750" pin and broken-in carrier and on/off o-rings. this also depends on the frame used (intelliframe is easier to sweet-spot the gun with than a single or benchmark frame, for example). also, practice helps a bit.

Thanks that sounds pretty good. I'm sure once I fill up my flatline 45 tank it will make it easier. I could definitely use the practice also since this is my 1st mag. It was pretty easy with my previous LVL 7 setup. Do you know why the intelliframe makes it easier to sweetspot? Is it simply the double trigger?