Bolt size question

[beautifulisblue]

EDIT: Pictures added below.

Newbie question about a mini mag I just bought off craigslist. I bought a package of stuff fairly cheap for our wildland fire station so we could play or back in the dessert after shift.

I looked but didn't see this in another thread.

I got a mini mag with a bunch of parts including extra bolts, but only one valve. Two of the bolts (one seems to be a ans phase II) stick out into the chamber and won't allow a ball to fall in.

The two bolts are definitely shorter where it slides onto the air chamber.

Just hoping someone might know if they fit a different valve mine didn't come with or I'm not installing then correctly. I tried multiple springs which didn't seem to make any difference.

Also would i get more accuracy or power out ofas different bolt? We play in the desert and longer range would be great, whereas rate of fire is less important.

Thanks in advance,
Adam

20150711_133605[1].jpg20150711_133649[1].jpg20150711_134111[1].jpg

THe first photo is the bolt that fits, the second shows how the other two bolts won't sit flush. Third is the bolt sticking out in the breach, thus not allowing balls to drop in.

[Cyco-Dude]

range is determined by velocity; the higher the velocity the farther the range.

as for the bolt...that problem sounds kinda weird. make sure the bolt spring is there and not worn out? i'd have to see pictures of them. use an agd bolt if you have one.

[athomas]

If its an automag bolt, it should fit, even if its an aftermarket one. If you do have an ANS bolt and an AGD bolt, use the AGD bolt. ANS bolts can cause issues. Sometimes they work fine and other times they don't.

Make sure the valve is installed correctly in the body, with the bolt spring on the front of the bolt. If the bolt spring is not incuded when you test fit the valve, the bolt can slide forward into the breach.

Make sure the bolt is fully seated in the powertube when you install the valve. If it won't properly sit back against the blue bumper, then you probably have the wrong powertube spacer, or it is installed in the wrong spacer-oring order.

Do you have a picture of the bolts?

[beautifulisblue]

No pictures as I'm on a wildland fire assignment for the next week or so. I'll post pics when I get back.

Thanks for the help.

[Pneumagger]

Are you trying to put an ANS or AGD L7 bolt into a powertube with L10 carrier installed?
Check the exploded valve diagram and check to make sure no extra components are in there.

[beautifulisblue]

Pneumagger,
How do I tell if I have a L10 carrier?
Thanks
Adam

[athomas]

A level 7 spacer is just a length of brass or aluminum tube. It pushes the powertube oring back in the powertube. The inner diameter of the spacer will fit over the bolt stem.

A level 10 carrier is a machined oring holder. The carrier has an indentation that holds an oring. The smaller hole of the level 10 carrier will fit over the smaller stem at the back of the level 10 bolt, but not the bolt stem of a level 7 bolt.

[vintage]

can't really tell from pics but none of the bolts appear to have the level 10 head to me. the bolt that won't seat may have a bad power tube stem on it or if it has a foamie it could be some glue residue on the stem causing it to not go into the power tube. i have a level 10 bolt that has that problem.

[OPBN]

Bolt in the picture on the left that is fitting looks like it could be an L10 bolt. Quick way to tell if you have an L10 power tube tip is whether it has a hex head to remove or a slot so that you would use a coin to remove. Hex would be L10, slot would be L7. Easy way to tell on the bolt is the center shaft that slides into the power tube extends past the back of the bolt on an L10 and doesn't on and L7. Also the back edge of the bolt is beveled on and L10 and isn't on and L7.

[beautifulisblue]

Thanks folks,
I think it came with one L10 bolt as the center shaft does extend past the bolt edge. The power tube end does have a hex head although a slot end came with the parts kit as well.

There is no foam on the bolts. So I am assuming the L10 valve bolt combo is better than the L7 anyway.

Does anyone know if the factory videos are available anywhere? Mine came with a vhs copy, but I haven't seen a VCR for a while.

[athomas]

I didn't notice that there pictures were added. The bolt on the left is a level 10. You can tell by the beveled edge at the back. The level 7 bolt will definitely not fit into the powertube with level 10 parts installed.

Level 10 is the way to go. It will work without the foamy, but it helps to prevent roll-back of the ball which causes the next ball in the stack to fall father into the breach. Its more of a problem with smaller paint. The level 10 bolt will prevent most issues that arize from the roll-back problem anyway.

Level 10 tuning:

The carriers are sized using lines and dots. Each line represents a 1 and a series of dots represents 0.5. Eg; 2 lines and dots equals size 2.5. Carriers range from size 0 to 3.5 but most people only have from 0 to 2.5 and most new kits have even less.

When tuning your level 10, remove all the shims from the powertube before starting. They don't affect the operation but they can cause false leaks which cause you to use a carrier size that is too tight. Don't put them back when you are done. You shouldn't ever need them.

For carrier sizing:

Find the carrier size that causes the installed oring to fit freely over the bolt stem. The carrier should sit on the bolt stem without moving if the bolt is held in a vertical position. If you tap the valve on a hard surface, the carrier should be loose enough to allow the bolt to move. If you have to force the carrier onto the bolt stem with any force at all, then it is too tight. Install the bolt and valve into the gun. When aired up there should be no leaking. If it leaks, take the carrier out and replace it with the next smaller size. Always use the same white carrier oring in each carrier that you use. It is the orings that you are adjusting. Try it again. You want to use the largest carrier size that does not produce a leak.

Any time that the gun fires and does not reset or short strokes and does not reset, or just chuffs and does not reset, the problem is most likely a carrier that is too tight. Installing shims will not help. Shims only help if the bolt moves, hits an object but does not vent any air, and then cannot reset because the chamber is still fully charged. Most of the time the bolt always moves far enough to expose the vent hole, get rid of excess air, and then reset.

For spring adjustment:

You want to use the bolt spring that allows you to shoot about 20fps above the lowest velocity that the gun will cycle at. So, if you want to use the gun at 280fps, then your desired lower limit of operation is 260fps. Insert your long bolt spring. Turn the velocity adjuster down before you air up the valve. Then gradually turn up the velocity until the gun will cycle. This is your lower velocity. Measure it. If it is above 265fps, then you will need a shorter spring or you will need to clip the one you have (unless you have red one. They are usually in the correct range). If you clip a spring, only clip half a coil at a time and then try it using the same procedure of starting with a low velocity setting. Make sure you put the cut end of the spring towards the bolt. If you have the short spring installed, and the lower range is 30fps below the desired shooting velocity, I wouldn't worry about using a stiffer spring and would just go with the short bolt spring. If it was much lower than that, I would definately clip a long spring to get closer to the desired range.

[Cyco-Dude]

well the pictures tell everything; your valve has a level 10 anti-chop bolt installed! the other two bolts are level 7, and will not work. you want to use the first bolt for sure.

[beautifulisblue]

Thanks folks for all the help, especially athomas.

I don't have a chrono as we are just playing in the desert behind our wildland fire station. I tried a chrono phone app and my mini mag and two tippmann 98s I bought and rebuilt were all shooting 250-260 according to the app.

My mini mag shoots great. Only occasionally will it get a little curvy shooting balls. I have a 14" barrel and a super shorty. I only use the long barrel since we play long distance no boundaries games mostly hiding behind yuccas.

Thanks again really appreciate the advice.

[Cyco-Dude]

barrel length has nothing to do with range as long as the velocity is the same between them. 280 fps out of a 8" barrel and 280 fps out of a 14" barrel = paintballs travel the same distance.

[athomas]

As mentioned above, the barrel length has nothing to do with distance. Use the one that gets the best consistency with the size (diameter) of the paint you are using.

A chrono is only good if it has break beam sensors or doppler radar. A phone app won't work unless your phone has those features.