Classic Valve with Autoresponse shoot down issue

[maninblack2k]

All- I'm purchasing a nice classic mag with a one star classic valve and lvl 7. It has a autoresponse frame but expirences shootdown under extreme fire. My understanding is that a classic can only handle around 10bps and with the autoresponse it's about 14bps, hence the shootdown. I've been out of mags for a lot of years but can I still replace the front half of the valve with a 7-hold mod to improve the flow still or is there a better option? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

:)

[Laku]

8 hole mod in the regulator doesn't really help. The hole in your classic is already indexed to match so all the additional holes won't make the flow any better.

What you could try is cleaning it up properly and oiling.

[Cyco-Dude]

i would make sure you are using the updated on/off top.

[Nobody]

A classic can handle up to 16bps before shoot down. Some can go a little higher or lower. Make sure that the orings are good, especially in the on/off and it has been oiled(3 drops of oil in the airline then shoot it out). You can also use a RT on/off which should help as well. Contact Tunaman for one.

[athomas]

There could be a couple of issues. With any new mag, make sure the orings are all new or in new condition. A sticky oring could cause your issues.

Check the spacing from the back of the trigger to the front of the trigger rod. Air up the gun. When you turn the safety on and hold the trigger against it, there should be a tiny gap. If there isn't a gap, then you are probably choking off the air supply.

An autoresponse trigger is fairly stiff because of the double action and the installed spring that you are working against. You can reduce the full force by installing a retro on-off assembly, as mentioned by Nobody.

[Spider-TW]

This is one of my favorite on/off posts,

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?197572-high-flow-on-off-for-pneu-electro-mags

Also, on/off pin length can affect your recharge time. It doesn't need to be as short as possible, it just needs to be not too long. The top of the pin needs to drop far enough below the o-ring as to not matter any more. If you shave some length off and it doesn't help, stop shaving.

[maninblack2k]

Thanks for the info. I'm going to have it in my possession by late next week and will look into it. It was tuned by someone on this forum with the name "BT Automag".

[BigEvil]

Thanks for the info. I'm going to have it in my possession by late next week and will look into it. It was tuned by someone on this forum with the name "BT Automag".

Well, there is your issue right there :)

Those Autoresponse frames can be tricky. They are fast but I guaranty you won't be out shooting the valve.

[maninblack2k]

Well, there is your issue right there :)

Those Autoresponse frames can be tricky. They are fast but I guaranty you won't be out shooting the valve.

if I have an issue getting it tuned right is there someone on these boards reputable to send it to?

[Laku]

That would be BigEvil. :)

[original farside]

well ill sound off on this as i have three AR mags that i use.
first off, are you using co2 or hpa? if co2 what size tank and do you have expansion? that could be the issue there. i use hpa and run it at 800psi. all my valves are classic and have updated on\off tops and fresh orings and are well lubed. i get long strings of 10bps to 14 bps with no shoot down at all. you also need to pull the trigger all the way back and let it go all the way forward. it takes practice to get the rhythm right with the response frames.

Check the spacing from the back of the trigger to the front of the trigger rod. Air up the gun. When you turn the safety on and hold the trigger against it, there should be a tiny gap. If there isn't a gap, then you are probably choking off the air supply.

An autoresponse trigger is fairly stiff because of the double action and the installed spring that you are working against. You can reduce the full force by installing a retro on-off assembly, as mentioned by Nobody.

athomas, there is no trigger rod. the sear is connected directly to the trigger linkage. also, the spring is really heavy, nothing that you do to the on\off assembly will really lighten up the pull, except changing the trigger spring tension, which then leads to sketchy functionality.

just keep it clean and lubed, as stated and practice. you wont out shoot the classic.
its soooo much fun to rip with a fully mechanical AR framed mag. people dont expect it.
add a lvl 10 bolt for the ultimate set up.

[athomas]

athomas, there is no trigger rod. the sear is connected directly to the trigger linkage. also, the spring is really heavy, nothing that you do to the on\off assembly will really lighten up the pull, except changing the trigger spring tension, which then leads to sketchy functionality.

I forgot there was no trigger rod. The stiff spring is there so that the return action has enough stored energy to provide the required amount of force to push the on-off pin up and close off the air supply. If you use a lighter on-off, you can use a lighter spring. As long as the spring provides the required amount of force, it will work. Either way, you are pulling against the spring tension and the on-off force. By changing just the on-off to a retro style you are reducing the trigger pull force by 2 lbs.

[maninblack2k]

I forgot there was no trigger rod. The stiff spring is there so that the return action has enough stored energy to provide the required amount of force to push the on-off pin up and close off the air supply. If you use a lighter on-off, you can use a lighter spring. As long as the spring provides the required amount of force, it will work. Either way, you are pulling against the spring tension and the on-off force. By changing just the on-off to a retro style you are reducing the trigger pull force by 2 lbs.

Interesting. I do like a nice crisp and light trigger pull. I'll keep that in mind on the on/off. Thanks for the info.

[maninblack2k]

What about tuna? I hear him referenced a lot......