Level 10 with a classic valve on a hyper frame

[fstop_22]

I've had a hyperframe that I have been trying to get to work on a classic valve with a level 10 bolt. I just about get it tuned and things start to go awry. I get it to the point when I feel I can test it with paint and I somehow step backwards. I get it dry firing consistently, drop paint in it and get occasional bolt stick. I drop in a shim (or 2 or 3 or 4) and get varying results. Currently I am at a .5 carrier with 3 shims. It fires decent but a long string can cause the bolt to stick. I noticed that as I start to add / remove shims sometimes when I start over (from the point it was working with occasional bolt stick) it doesn't work at all. The bolt sticks immediately or doesn't fire at all. I'm thinking that there is another variable that I am over looking. When using a level 10 with a classic valve is it ok to use a blue bolt bumper or should I be using a softer bumper? Could the field strip bolt be fitting too loose? I'm almost completely out of air. I'm on the fence about this set-up. Any help on this would be much appreciated.

[Cyco-Dude]

you probably don't need the shims. have you tried a larger carrier? you want the largest one with the carrier o-ring you're using that doesn't leak to keep friction at a minimum. also, what spring are you using? i would test it with a gold spring. what body are you using? what barrel are you using? take the spring off, remove the carrier, and make sure the bolt can slide freely into the breech / barrel.

[athomas]

Shims only help if the gun tries to fire, doesn't release any air, and then can't reset. This only happens if the bolt encounters a blockage directly in front of the bolt. Most of the time, even when that happens, the bolt moves far enough to expose the vent hole anyway. Shims only change the distance that the bolt needs to travel before the bolt stem can vent air and reset. So, if you are getting occasional bolt stick under normal conditions, it is most likely a carrier related issue.

What are you using for an on-off assembly?

The blue bumper is fine. It was designed for the classic valve. The softer one will get shreaded anyway unless you epoxy it to the front of the valve. The fronts of the valves are the same dimensions and material as on the retro valves and I haven't heard of anyone having issues with any classic valve with a blue bumper, even after 25 years.

[fstop_22]

What are you using for an on-off assembly?

The blue bumper is fine. It was designed for the classic valve. The softer one will get shreaded anyway unless you epoxy it to the front of the valve. The fronts of the valves are the same dimensions and material as on the retro valves and I haven't heard of anyone having issues with any classic valve with a blue bumper, even after 25 years.

It is an RT on/off. I started with a 2.5 carrier but I couldn't find a combination to make it stop leaking and function properly (going down to a 2 and a 1.5 with a combination of shims - it would function/cycle but there was always a leak out the bolt - sometimes very slight). So I got a fresh o-ring and started over. I started with a 1.5 but it was too big. A .5 carrier and 2 shims got the gun dry firing perfect. I tried re-balls and had an occasional bolt stick on long/fast strings, added a shim but still had problems. Thinking the reballs may be a problem, switched to paint but when I switched to paint it wouldn't fire at all. Took it apart, may have removed a shim and it started working again but with occasional bolt stick. I have a ReTro valve with a level 10 and didn't have these issues tuning it. The inconsistencies have me thinking something else is out of line but I'm at a loss as to what.

[nak81783]

Do you have the same problems when using a mechanical frame?

[Nobody]

What is the dwell setting on the board? What spring are you using on the bolt?

[athomas]

It is an RT on/off. I started with a 2.5 carrier but I couldn't find a combination to make it stop leaking and function properly (going down to a 2 and a 1.5 with a combination of shims - it would function/cycle but there was always a leak out the bolt - sometimes very slight).

The shims were probably causing your leak which resulted in you using a tighter carrier size to compensate which then caused bolt stick issues.

Part of the problem might be your on-off orings. A leak on one of those could cause the bolt to have issues resetting. Have you tried changing the top orings?

When the hyperframe won't fire, have you verified that the bolt is fully reset? I suspect the whole issue is bolt stick related to the carrier/oring combination. What is your velocity setting? Have you set it so that it is at least 20fps above the minimum velocity that the gun starts to cycle. Have you been using the short gold spring for testing? It is the best one to use, especially if you are having these issues. Then you can go to the longer red or cut spring after you verify the gun cycles without any leaks.