On/Off Sticking

[Cyco-Dude]

level 7 or level 10 bolt? if it's a level 7, try using a longer power tube spacer. if it's a level 10, try putting the carrier o-ring into the next size larger carrier.

since you got a rebuild kit, i'm assuming you're using a new gold bolt spring?

Gearheadz Helios body

double-check that the detent is not screwed in too far. in fact, just take it out and re-test.

[some_guy]

It's a level 7. Unfortunately, don't have any other powertube spacers to try as of now. It is the newer gold bolt spring, and removed the detent (issue happens with or without detent, and with ether new or original spring.

I just noticed though, that I can press the trigger pin with an allen key, and it still fires (and if I fire it multiple times, the trigger pin returns to different places, mostly out of reach of the trigger). It seems like the on/off pin is not pushing down enough to return the trigger pin to proper resting position.

[Cyco-Dude]

It's a level 7. Unfortunately, don't have any other powertube spacers to try as of now. It is the newer gold bolt spring, and removed the detent (issue happens with or without detent, and with ether new or original spring.

I just noticed though, that I can press the trigger pin with an allen key, and it still fires (and if I fire it multiple times, the trigger pin returns to different places, mostly out of reach of the trigger). It seems like the on/off pin is not pushing down enough to return the trigger pin to proper resting position.

what frame does the gun have? how long is the trigger rod from the end of the rod to the back of the clevis? you'll need some calipers to measure it. what size power tube spacer does it have now?

[blackdeath1k]

Oh! Trigger rod was an issue when I bought the wife's marker. Is was sold to me in "working order". Wouldn't cycle. Finally was told to check lingth. Don't remember how long it was. But it was never going to cycle properly. Filed it to .750 and it cycles perfect.

[BigEvil]

Rebuild the on off with fresh orings and then go from there

[some_guy]

To answer the past few questions, it's got an intelliframe. I can check the length of the trigger rod and the spacer size later this evening. The trigger rod is a good thought, but I don't suspect it as here's a bit more history on the issue- When I initially built this marker, it actually fired fine (or appeared to at least). It would fire and re-cock just fine. This was with all the same parts, and I hadn't touched the valve at all. So, I went to put paint in it, and when pulled the trigger, it would multi/rapid shot. With each trigger pull you'd get a few balls within a second and some would break in the barrel, etc. When I cleaned the marker up, I noticed that when a shot was fired, if I held the trigger, there was a light leak coming down the barrel. At this point, I started into the whole "fix it" routine, which started with cleaning and re-oiling everything, and when that didn't work, it led me to starting to swap rings, which ended up with where I am now.

So, with all that being said, and with everything that's been tested and checked up to this point, I'm thinking that BigEvil might have the right idea of rebuilding the on/off. However, all of the orings I have of the type and size for an automag are from that same original kit (and yes, I've tried different ones within the kit). I've been a bit suspect of the oring kit from the start, so I'm thinking to try ordering one directly from AGD. The first kit is an official AGD one, but it might be older, and was ordered from somewhere else. Who knows, it could have been sitting on a shelf for the last 15 years leaving the orings less than ideal?

[BiNumber3]

I probably have O-rings at least that old from AGD, that still look fresh:)
The multi-shooting sounds like it was due to a flipped on/off pin, but if it's no longer doing that, you probably put it in right.

Can you take a picture of the on/off, and maybe the rest of the mag as well for us?

[Cyco-Dude]

To answer the past few questions, it's got an intelliframe. I can check the length of the trigger rod and the spacer size later this evening. The trigger rod is a good thought, but I don't suspect it as here's a bit more history on the issue- When I initially built this marker, it actually fired fine (or appeared to at least). It would fire and re-cock just fine. This was with all the same parts, and I hadn't touched the valve at all. So, I went to put paint in it, and when pulled the trigger, it would multi/rapid shot. With each trigger pull you'd get a few balls within a second and some would break in the barrel, etc. When I cleaned the marker up, I noticed that when a shot was fired, if I held the trigger, there was a light leak coming down the barrel. At this point, I started into the whole "fix it" routine, which started with cleaning and re-oiling everything, and when that didn't work, it led me to starting to swap rings, which ended up with where I am now.

So, with all that being said, and with everything that's been tested and checked up to this point, I'm thinking that BigEvil might have the right idea of rebuilding the on/off. However, all of the orings I have of the type and size for an automag are from that same original kit (and yes, I've tried different ones within the kit). I've been a bit suspect of the oring kit from the start, so I'm thinking to try ordering one directly from AGD. The first kit is an official AGD one, but it might be older, and was ordered from somewhere else. Who knows, it could have been sitting on a shelf for the last 15 years leaving the orings less than ideal?

yeah, i'd take another look at the on/off top o-rings for sure...

[some_guy]

I just went ahead a did quick videos of my build and the resulting problem. Sorry about the quality, and I stutter like an idiot and mis-name parts when I'm recording... But, should be good enough to see what's going on.

Build video:

https://youtu.be/owOCrbjehiY

Shooting video:

https://youtu.be/kwrVs8HcpZU

Any comments welcome, thanks!

[some_guy]

Oh, and I say it in the video, but the trigger rod is about 1.93" inches in length, although that may be too short and causing some of the issue as well...

[Cyco-Dude]

Oh, and I say it in the video, but the trigger rod is about 1.93" inches in length, although that may be too short and causing some of the issue as well...

that's too short; it should be 1.985" or thereabouts.

[BiNumber3]

Have you tried replacing your cat? (j/k:P)

[athomas]

The fact that the trigger rod is stopping at different distances indicates that there are some sticking issues. It could be from having a powertube spacer that is too short, or a leaking top on-off oring, or a combination of both. A leak out the front while you hold the trigger would indicate a leaking on-off oring.

Once you get the sticking issue solved, you can adjust your trigger rod to the proper distance. The length indicated above is a good place to start. Once the gun cycles properly without sticking, you should adjust the trigger rod length so that there is a slight gap between the back of the trigger and the front of the trigger rod with the trigger held against the safety while the valve has air.

[some_guy]

Tried to swap the cat for a better model, but they wouldn't take him back. Said something about user error due to him being too fat.

So, I just looked at the trigger rod- Turns out, I can spin it with my hands. Like, easily... I had kind of been ignoring it up until now as in one of the AGD videos I saw, they said not to adjust it. But, I bumped it out to 1.985 as stated by Cyco-Dude, and it appears to be firing properly now. Just did about 15 dry fire shots, and they all sounded pretty similar. Also, the trigger rod was returning out back to where it should be on each shot- the on/off pin doesn't appear to be sticking anymore.

It'll be this weekend before I can try putting paint through it, but so far, this is the best it's been working (and it no longer leaks when I hold the trigger due to the oring replacement, which is why I started messing with it in the first place...). I'll update when I can see how it's shooting, and get some locktite on the trigger rod when it's adjusted and shooting properly.

Thank you all very much for your help, I greatly appreciate it. There was a lot of great advice in this thread, and I couldn't have figured this one out on my own. And, I've learned quite a bit about automags in the process, which is why I started this project to begin with :)

[BiNumber3]

Hmm, yea normally the pin is pretty darn tight (I'd usually heat it up a bit and really grip tight with flat pliers in order to move it), someone probably loosened it up. You can put some Teflon tape on it for now if you don't want to locktite it right away.