automag v auto cocker

[theraidenproject]

Originally posted by Arson51
and should i get a fore grip or a regulator, and a double tirgger frame?

foregrip - yes, in my opinion. majority do, few dont
reg - no, you'll just starve the valve. mags have the valve (the a.i.r {advanced integrated regulater} valve) already in, unlike most markers
double trigger - absolutely, get the AGD intelliframe. theyre hands down the best 2x you can get for the mag. also, you can hoko it up to your revvy or warp, so it spins with every pull best price ive seen is $109 shipped @ modifedpaintball.com (go to the bday special page, its midway down on the left column)

[Mink06]

reg

If you are running CO2 I would strongly recommend a good CO2 reg first, like a stablizer...Otherwise it's a matter of wich would be more comfortable for you.

[Kaiser Bob]

BTW: Sidenote about cycling speed. The mag cycles at about 20ms the average cocker cycles at around 100 ms if now slower, so no they dont cycle the same :)

[drx975]

Cycle rate is how many time you can fire the gun before noticable shootdown occurs, right? With that, a Mag cycles (stock AIR valve) at 16 a second, and the RT (also retro?) at around 26 a second. Im not sure what the cocker's cycle rate is, but its not 16 a second stock. And what does 20"ms" mean?

[Kaiser Bob]

cycle speed is how fast the bolt goes from original position to finish. 20ms means 20 milliseconds or .020 seconds. We looked at videos of the autococker firing balls and it was about 100ms or .1s to cycle once while loading balls. assuming a fast loader and high performance pneumatics and a fast trigger finger id give the cocker about a 70-80 ms max cycle time (this is a guesstimate BTW) but there is no way you will see a cocker cycling at 20ms that i can almost guarentee.

[drx975]

Alrite I see now....I remember seeing someone/something saying that it was how many shots/sec before shootdown occurs....but what you said makes sense. But a Mag can shoot 16bps stock AIR without shootdown, so that itself shows how fast the gun can cycle.

[mykroft]

Kaiser Bob,

Remember that the bolt cycle on a cocker includes both loading and firing, while the mag's bolt cycle only includes firing. The cocker can cycle (firing cycle, not bolt cycle) just as fast as a stock AIR valve (try an F5, 16bps is acheivable without shootdown) This of course requires a good reg, high-flow valve and top-end pneumatics (No clippard crap).


Mag bolt cycle is out-fire-in
Cocker is Out-pause to load-in-fire.

And 20ms is the RT's bolt cycle, not sure if the AIR valve is the same (Wouldn't be shocked if it was).

[Butterfingers]

Originally posted by mykroft
Kaiser Bob,

Remember that the bolt cycle on a cocker includes both loading and firing, while the mag's bolt cycle only includes firing. The cocker can cycle (firing cycle, not bolt cycle) just as fast as a stock AIR valve (try an F5, 16bps is acheivable without shootdown) This of course requires a good reg, high-flow valve and top-end pneumatics (No clippard crap).


Mag bolt cycle is out-fire-in
Cocker is Out-pause to load-in-fire.

And 20ms is the RT's bolt cycle, not sure if the AIR valve is the same (Wouldn't be shocked if it was).

YEP The RT and AIR valves are both about 20ms per cycle the only diffrence is that the RT has a better reg. Other than that the mechanics are identical. The diffrence is that the AIR will have shootdown and the RT valve would not. An AIR valve technically could feed and fire balls at 26 BPS and beyond but there would be MASSIVE shootdown.

Id hate to be the one that throws in the money wrench but the mag is in fact faster than a cocker ever could be. A mag has to undergo half the cycles per ball, has less reciprocating mass, and more force throwing around the internals.

An f5 cocker can cycle at 16 bps but it would never have enough open bolt time to feed balls even if they were forced. If you ask PGA (on pbn) from centerflag they could never get thier cockers with the uprising frame to feed more than 14 bps no matter what kind of forced system they used.

In comparison the maximum physycal limit of any mag is 50 BPS if any reg could keep up to that.

[magsrtite]

The only bad thing about mags is they aren't half as consistent as cockers. I wrote down the readings from my mag and my friends cocker yesterday at the field: My mag w/ nitro- 154,267,279,257,268,293,274,261. My friend's cocker- 267,269,264,266,270,268,268,265. You be the judge.

[minimag187]

Reply

Both me and my friend when firing with nitro on the chrono get: 278-275-286-283-281-276-279-287, my friend gets about close to the same, I use a Flatline regulator an he uses a AA Melee reg. I dont know why yours is so inconsistant.

[drx975]

yeah right man

The only bad thing about mags is they aren't half as consistent as cockers. I wrote down the readings from my mag and my friends cocker yesterday at the field: My mag w/ nitro- 154,267,279,257,268,293,274,261. My friend's cocker- 267,269,264,266,270,268,268,265. You be the judge.

Come on, thats BS. Either something is wrong with the reg seat (e.g its old, or dirty), or those 8 shots were the FIRST 8 shots. If they were the first 8 shots since you gassed up that day, the regulator piston needs to set itself in place. Usually it takes 10-20 shots. Then chrono your gun. With my mag on c02 in good weather, I used to get readings like this (im makin this up but just to give you an idea) 278-283-277-284-280-278-282 kinda like that. I think my average was +/-6. Weather was 80 degrees, +/-3 and I run remote to bottomline ASA to foregrip. Clean the gun out and oil everything too.

[magsrtite]

I think it may be because i have the ANS Phase II valve. I didn't have a choice though, I bought the gun when I was a newb and the owner said it was an awesome deal. Those shots were in the middle of the day. I have no idea whast wrong.

[CockerGuy]

WARNING FOR CHALLENGING AND DEFEATING THE CURSE FILTER- one more and you get a ban - cphilip

[The_Vince]

Well, in my opinion, the Mag is a better marker. When you look at the accuracy and distance, that all paint.. nothing more. I had a cocker for 2 years and spent more time tweeking it so that i would work right then playing.. Guess it was just a lemon lol... Sold the cocker, bought the mag , have not been dissapointed yet. It's small, gots good balance on the hand. with the right tank configuration you get a easy to hold on to marker.. Try em both, you'll know right off the bat what you like..

[magsrtite]

What is the "curse filter"?