Performance expectations - Velocity and ball breaks

[Mondoatx]

Hey guys,

Took my RT Pro out yesterday and had some questions.

I was shooting betw 265 and 285 at the chrono... What type of velocity variance do you get from shot to shot?

I shot about 1100 rounds and had 1 ball break... What is the ratio of shots to breaks you get with a properly tuned L10?

Just want to make sure my expectations are in line with reality...

Thanks all.

[Nobody]

Variance in velocity is determined from the paint to bore match, the varying difference of paint sizes in the case of paint and the consistency of pressure delivered to the gun. RT'ing will also, in conjunction with consistency of the input pressure will effect velocity. That is, the more you RT, the faster the tank has to come up to pressure. So the faster and/or longer paint strings, the more variance in velocities.

Breaks can happen even with the L10. The L10 just prevents chops, not ball breaks. A bad ball can still break in the barrel. Also, how strong the hopper is demivering the paint can also effect breaking of paint.

[BigEvil]

What input pressure are you running? Twist lock or cocker threaded barrel?

[Spider-TW]

Paint by itself could account for everything listed. It takes good paint to chrono +/-5 fps. Hard shell field paint won't break in a barrel, sometimes not when it hits. You shoot a whole case and can only torture people with it.

The worst I've seen is a batch that had some you could not break with your fingers while others would fall less than two feet onto an ice chest lid and break. When shooting, about 1 in 20 would pop in the barrel or on exit. It was "cold weather" paint made in Columbia. "Store below 55F."

Do you chrono with the same type of trigger pull every time? The RTs can have a different velocity if you give them a short recharge by lifting and pulling the trigger quickly.

[armymanadam]

You may want to check your reg piston o-ring and reg seat. If those are worn, damaged or lacking proper lube it can result in inconsistent reg performance, just like any other HPR. My RT ULE Mag is usually the most consistent gun I shoot on a field day, easily hitting +/-5 fps even with poor field paint.


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[Mondoatx]

I will try to cover everyone's questions/comments here.

-I rebuilt the gun a week or so ago... literally every soft seal in the whole thing has been replaced...
-I am using a Ninja SHP Compressed air tank with an output pressure of 1250 lbs
-This causes the gun to RT like crazy... it can be difficult to get a single shot as opposed to a burst... maybe this is causing some of the chrono inconsistency (I'm surprised the field is even letting me use it).
-Hopper is a rotor with factory settings (I think there is a way to adjust tension or feed rate... haven't had a chance to research or tinker with this)
-Cocker threaded barrel (Driver XX with .688 bore off my Axe Pro)
-Reg piston oring and reg seat are new and gun was well oiled.

I will try chonoing again next weekend with just single shots and see if that makes a difference.

Also... the break I had was in the breach... not the barrel...

I am pleased with the performance in comparison to what it was pre rebuild... just not sure if I should be expecting more...

Thanks for your input guys.

M

[athomas]

If the paint breaks as it is pushed into the barrel, it will result in paint in the breach and on the bolt, resembling a chop. It would still be considered a barrel break and not a chop. A chop is where the ball gets chopped in half when it is only partially in the breach. The hopper has to be slower than your shot rate for this to happen. This is rare on force fed hoppers unless you run them empty.

Given your inconsistencies in velocity, I would look toward paint as the culprit. I'd at least test it first.

If you can single shot your gun using the same trigger pull method and same time between trigger pulls, then you will level out the velocity from the gun's point of view. Then it comes down to paint inconsistency, unless there is a malfunction in one of the mechanisms in the gun. If the paint is all nice and round and the same general size, then look to something in the gun.

When you oil a mag, make sure you blow out all the excess oil by cycling the gun before you put the barrel on. Make sure you clean out the breach. Oil residue will cause inconsistency and erratic shot accuracy. Make sure you don't oil or grease the bolt or bolt spring. That will cause issues as well.

[rawbutter]

I shot about 1100 rounds and had 1 ball break... What is the ratio of shots to breaks you get with a properly tuned L10?

I have six Automags that all have Level 10 bolts. These are my rentals. Any time I go out to play, all of these markers are spoken for (I've found that my friends are much more willing to come and play if they can rent a nice, reliable marker from me instead of a Tippmann 98 from the field). When I go out, it's not uncommon for me and my friends to shoot through two to four cases of paint. So these markers have seen a great deal of use.

And to go a whole day without barrel breaks? It's very uncommon. We never get chops, obviously, and my markers don't get a lot of barrel breaks. Maybe one or two a day. Maybe more if the paint is old or the weather is poor. But it's rare to make it the whole day without a single barrel break. So I think a ration of 1/1100 is great.

[Mondoatx]

athomas,

I am inclined think the ball break I had was a barrel break... I say this because the L10 did kick in at a couple of points during play and it did NOT chop when that happened.

I had some oil on the bolt and the spring for sure... I will try it more dry next time and see what happens... and also make sure I clean out the breach to eliminate that variable.

Also will try single shots and see how that goes for consistency.

rawbutter,

Thanks for that info... that helps me put things in perspective.

Thanks guys!

M

[blackdeath1k]

If I remember correct the proper way to Chrono an rt is by shooting a ball and holding in the trigger. Then quickly releasing and shooting a ball and hold in the trigger. Ect.

To lighten tension on the rotor if you pull the motor box out of the hopper there are 2 Allen screws on the back of it. One of them is the tension screw. But sorry. I don't remember which is which. I researched it and then backed mine off half way between stock and as weak as it gets. That solved all my feed issues with TW barrels on my rt.

As far as your break. It sounds more like a crappy ball to me than anything. Last time i played it was cold and the paint wasn't great. All the cheap guns were barrel breaking bad. Even my Geo was barrel breaking 1/100 shots. It was a frustrating day that I just had to remind myself that everyone was dealling with it. And I had the best marker on the field to cope with the bad batch of paint.

[rawbutter]

It might not have even been bad paint. It could have just been one bad ball in the batch. It happens.

I usually buy super-hard paint (because my local field plays hits, not breaks), but one time, I was filling pods in my garage, and a few balls spilled out from the bag and fell to the floor. Most of them bounced, of course, and then bounced again, and again. They only fell from waist height or so onto concrete. But one broke, amazingly. One super brittle ball, for some reason, from a bag of brand new paint. (I'm really glad that one broke on the floor and not in my barrel.)

Now, the paint that I buy is probably worse quality than the paint you buy, but the point still applies. I don't think it's unreasonable to have one or two bad balls in a case of good, expensive paint.

[Spider-TW]

One day I test fired a marker from my back door into the grass. It bounced up, hit the cedar fence (about 20 ft away), came back and hit the wood on my house behind me, bounced off the concrete by my feet and back into the grass. I stick to vertical targets now.

[rawbutter]

One day I test fired a marker from my back door into the grass. It bounced up, hit the cedar fence (about 20 ft away), came back and hit the wood on my house behind me, bounced off the concrete by my feet and back into the grass. I stick to vertical targets now.

[blackdeath1k]

Robin Hood! Great movie!

[Spider-TW]

just like that, I have to admit. Probably something that looked like old betsy too. I didn't expect full velocity out of it at the time. Catching one of those paintballs directly in the head is the worst.

That one out of a thousand could have been fragile, or it could have been small. You get the little footballs sometimes that no detent will catch. They roll through the detent on their narrow side and stop down the barrel, just caught and waiting for the next ball to come by (which probably kicked it down the barrel). We had some a couple years ago that you would think that they mixed some .50 cal paint with it. Some were .50 or less, about one in 100 were noticeable. There were intermediate sizes and it was all the same fill and shell, so I don't think it was really .50 cal paint, but some looked perfect for .50's. I had not seen that before.