X Valve Trigger problem.

[tucson.az.jbreen]

The valve is from tuna, and has not sat inactive as long as I've owned it. What I meant was perhaps these orings are original to the manufacture date of the valve, and that they have expired.

If I were to pursue this line of thought and purchase a rebuild kit, how would one ensure the kit is fresh and not pre expired like the ones in the valve?

[Mondoatx]

Hey guys, I come to you seeking advise from the wise. I know a little bit about mags and such but this one is breaking my stones till no end.
I have X valved ULE mag with an inteliframe. I got her to RT nicely, but every now and again the bolt just goes dead. The trigger pin has pressure to push the trigger forward, but pulling it doesn't fire the marker.
I have to de-gas and re-gas the marker and she shoots until it happens again.

Fancyfingers,

Mine was doing the EXACT same thing (RT Pro with Xvalve and intelliframe)... I would have to turn the air on and off before the trigger would act right... with an additional issue... when it would fire the first shot would be super low velocity... I was using the red spring...

I replaced every seal in the gun and it was still doing the same thing... I was almost at my wit's end and wanted to throw it through the wall...

A buddy of mine asked me what spring... and I told him the red one... and he said "sometimes those come with too much red paint on them and it binds up on the bolt because it is too tight... take it off and put it back on"... I tried that... and he was right... it was super tight...

The only other spring I had at the time was the gold one... but it was much looser (not tight at all and I didn't have to fight to get it on)...

I replaced it and it totally worked... I wasn't expecting it to work... but it totally did... and I had eliminated all the other variables... had to tune the L10 after that but no weird trigger issues and no low velocity first shot issues... Oh... and I also run 1100 Lbs input pressure.

If you have another bolt spring try it out... can't hurt.

Hope this helps man.

M

[luke]

(more of an additional question then an answer, but...)
Totally a hypothesis, but I believe the Luke's custom ultra lite rail has the sear assembly sitting closer to the valve body, then would an agd stock rail. Assuming my theory is valid, this would mean the sear was pushing the pin further into the body than what is ideal. Thanks, Jim

You keep insinuating these are not to spec, if you're going to make a statement like that at least back it up with actual measurements. What you suggest about the pin being pushed in further is not even possible. The pin depth is controlled by the on/off assembly and the on/off pin length, when you pull the trigger the on/off acts as a stop for the sear. It does not work as you suggest.

[Tunaman]

You keep insinuating these are not to spec, if you're going to make a statement like that at least back it up with actual measurements. What you suggest about the pin being pushed in further is not even possible. The pin depth is controlled by the on/off assembly and the on/off pin length, when you pull the trigger the on/off acts as a stop for the sear. It does not work as you suggest.

Actually, the sear has a bump on it that hits the body when fully actuated by the on/off pin. It has nothing to do with the rail. Your rails are fine so his argument is moot.

[luke]

For clarification, here's a cut away of the rail with and without the body.

This first one verifies what Tunaman said, when you air up the marker the pin is pushed out of the on/off assembly and stops when the sear hits the underside of the body. The picture shows the "bump" on the sear and the mark it leaves on the bottom of the body when the marker is set to fire.



This cut away shows the whole assembly with the sear in the firing position.


These two pictures show the sear in the firing position with the body removed, the on/off body acts as a sear stop, it will not allow the on/off pin to be pushed any further in than the top of the assembly. The pin depth is strictly controlled by its length and the on/off top.

[Fancyfingers]

Mondoatx, I have tried a couple different springs, the looser fitting ones RT better, but I believe my problem stems from the bolt not returning all the way. I have noticed that when she goes dead, I can manually push the bolt all the way to the rear, the sear resets and she shoots again. The longer spring reduces the frequency of the bolt stopping, except it drags too much and causes large inconsistencies in velocity and reactivity.

[Tunaman]

Mondoatx, I have tried a couple different springs, the looser fitting ones RT better, but I believe my problem stems from the bolt not returning all the way. I have noticed that when she goes dead, I can manually push the bolt all the way to the rear, the sear resets and she shoots again. The longer spring reduces the frequency of the bolt stopping, except it drags too much and causes large inconsistencies in velocity and reactivity.

Try tightening the rear field strip screw with a wrench...

[tucson.az.jbreen]

Ok, I see that. Excellent visuals, thank you for taking the time to post all of this.

[athomas]

Mondoatx, I have tried a couple different springs, the looser fitting ones RT better, but I believe my problem stems from the bolt not returning all the way. I have noticed that when she goes dead, I can manually push the bolt all the way to the rear, the sear resets and she shoots again. The longer spring reduces the frequency of the bolt stopping, except it drags too much and causes large inconsistencies in velocity and reactivity.

If the field screw tightening doesn't help straighten the valve alignment and free up the bolt, then your problem is most likely a carrier that is too tight. That would sometimes be made to work by going to a lighter spring such as what worked for Mondoatx. It doesn't fix the problem though, only masks it. The bolt needs to move freely in and out of the carrier oring without any friction. If the tension on the carrier oring is higher than the force exerted on the bolt stem, then the higher friction can prevent the bolt from firing.
.

[tucson.az.jbreen]

Which axis is the level ten spacer adjusting ?

They compress the o ring vertically to make it tighter or more loose?

Or does it adjust horizontal distance from some point of reference like the L7 power tube spacer kit?

[luke]

Fancyfingers, are you running trigger stops?

[Laku]

Which axis is the level ten spacer adjusting ?

They compress the o ring vertically to make it tighter or more loose?

Or does it adjust horizontal distance from some point of reference like the L7 power tube spacer kit?

It compresses the o-ring, making it tighter or looser.

[Spider-TW]

Which axis is the level ten spacer adjusting ?

They compress the o ring vertically to make it tighter or more loose?

Or does it adjust horizontal distance from some point of reference like the L7 power tube spacer kit?

It compresses the o-ring, making it tighter or looser.

The level 10 uses a "carrier" to hold the o-ring and adjust the tension of the seal, as Laku said. The level 10 "shims" are used (if at all) to adjust the distance to the o-ring.

While level 7 "spacers" occupy the same area as the level 10 "carriers", the carrier's job is as a set-length spacer with a set inside diameter. Traditionally, you use a level 7 spacer kit to adjust the distance to the o-ring on a level 7, but you can use a level 10 shim (0.010") or a ULT shim (0.005") on top of a short spacer to increase that distance.

[luke]

If it only happens once in awhile it could be your short stroking the trigger or if you tune your trigger stops right on the "firing and reset" edge you may on occasion get a shot that doesn't reset the bolt.

[Tunaman]

If it only happens once in awhile it could be your short stroking the trigger or if you tune you trigger stops right on the "firing and reset" edge you may on occasion a shot that doesn't reset the bolt.

This is why trigger stops are not recommended in an automag. All mags require a full pull and full release to operate correctly. Premature sear and bolt wear will occur with trigger stops.