New mag owner and issues

[Gabehcoud]

So I got a new mag. My first mag. Ule rt custom from agd. When I got it it had the size zero carrier in the power tube and two shims with the gold/shortest spring. I also have a ninja shp tank that is as it is when you buy it meaning I haven't taken any shims out or anything. Also using the standard on/off not the ult. I took the two shims out of the power tube as they were causing the gun to leak badly out of the bolt.

However when I air it up I get a leak out of the bolt regardless of no shims but a lot less than with them. Once I fire the gun however it is fine-ish. It leaks but less almost not at all. When I am playing though after shooting several shots (about 8 or so) the gun will not fire or just chuff a ball out and the trigger will not reset unless I smack the back of the gun (velocity adjustment) then I can shoot a few more shots and same thing. At first I thought it was the macro line because if I fiddled with it, the trigger would reset and I could go again but then I shortened the macro and still same thing so then I got a longer macro and still same problem only fiddling with the macro wouldn't do the trick.

I plan on getting steel braid line to hopefully maybe help with that but I still don't understand what is going on. Should I maybe try a different oring in the power tube to maybe get a larger spacer in there and then play around with adding shims? Also I was getting ball chops left and right so I tried using the red spring but that made me have to turn the velocity up way high to get it to cycle so I had to trim it to be able to bring the velocity down to acceptable level and I was still getting chops but less often. I do blame the paint partially for the chops as it was crap and really brittle. Something called APX fyre I think

[Soonersdds]

As far as the chuffing and bolt reset is concerned I would be looking at the zero carrier as the problem. Too tight of a carrier will cause bolt stick, too loose will cause a leak. As far as shims in the level 10 they are likely not needed at all. I personally use the gold spring with all my level 10's because I find it easier to dial in. As far as the air leak that happens as soon as you air it up, after you change the carrier (maybe start at the 1.5 if you have it, and make sure you reuse the same carrier oring that you take out of the 0 carrier) put about 3 drops of oil in the asa and dry fire 15-20 shots to blow lube all through the valve. Report back and I'm sure somebody will have a more technical answer than me by then.

[Soonersdds]

also, interesting name you have there.

[nak81783]

Modern Level 10 tuning guide: http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...50#post2868950

[Laku]

Did you hand tighten the field strip screw or did you use Allen key?

Fiddling with the valve resetting the bolt points to misalignment with the body. This could be because the valve wasn't properly tightened down with Allen key.

I forget what Tunamans exact advice was on allen key tightening, but around half a turn sounds about right?

[rawbutter]

I forget what Tunamans exact advice was on allen key tightening, but around half a turn sounds about right?

Yeah. Tighten it down, but then back it out half a turn. That should keep the valve aligned correctly.

The velocity might also be down a little bit. That could be contributing to the chuffing.

Personally I would put the shims back in, then increase the velocity a little bit (like 1/8 turn at first, then maybe up to 1/4 turn if that doesn't help). Then make sure the field strip screw isn't too tight, and add a little more oil and shoot through a tank to make sure the Level 10 o-ring is set properly. If that doesn't help, then start over with the Level 10 (and a new o-ring).

Congrats on the new mag, by the way, and welcome to the forum. I know this is frustrating now, but once it's set up properly, you shouldn't have to touch it again for years and years.

[Laku]

Shims aren't necessary and can cause false leaks so leave them out. You only need shims if bolt starts to pinch balls before it vents and that's extremely unlikely given the modern paint size.

[Gabehcoud]

Velocity is at about 270-80 when it does work. Size zero carrier is what it came with installed plus two shims. I took the two shims out before playing as I had heard that you shouldn't ever need them and how they can cause "false leaks" whatever that means. If I follow the instructions that "nak" linked to then the zero carrier is the only carrier that keeps the bolt from slipping off when held vertically. And as the instructions mention, just a tap on a hard surface makes it release. I have not yet tried airing up with a different size carrier to see if it will leak or not though so I will try that tomorrow. I will also try tightening or loosening the f/s screw to see if that makes a difference. I wish that wasn't so particular especially considering that is something that gets screwed and unscrewed regularly.

When I originally played with the gun the first time I was just using the gold spring and zero carrier and no shims with my 750 psi tank and it worked fine. I really had to crank that velocity up fhough to get to the field requirement. It started cycling at like 150 fps but if I put the red spring in it wouldn't cycle until I was at like 330 fps. But year for whatever reason it didn't like the shp tank but with the standard out put it worked fine but no reactivity to speak of.

I played with it yesterday with my shp tank and it seemed to be working fine at first with a lot of reactivity (brought a smile to my face and tears to others haha) but as the day went on I just had more and more problems. I swapped out to the red spring hoping that would keep ball chops to a minimum but I had to trim it damn near to the length of the gold spring just to get me shooting at 270-280.

But like I said I will try addressing the above mentioned items tomorrow and see if it helps. Hopefully it does. From the times that I have played with it even having the problems it does have I really like this gun, like a lot.

[nak81783]

I tend to ignore the "dry fit" for the carrier o-ring in the directions I linked. I just use the largest one that doesn't leak. The "dry fit" method will get you close, but you should still go up until you get a leak. Then, back down one carrier. As the bolt stem o-ring wears, you may need to go down a carrier size...maybe.

The field strip screw isn't that sensitive, in my experience. Snug, but do not over-tighten, with an allen key, and it's good to go.

If I remember correctly, the Level 10 came out right before force-feed hoppers became mainstream. That said, I've never really needed the Level 10 once I got a Halo. Then again, I don't RT, so I guess it might be handy when RT-ing.

With the details you provided, I still think you were fighting bolt stick due to the small carrier you're using. That led you to prematurely snip your red spring, essentially making it a gold spring. The red spring typically gives decent results for just about everybody. Try moving up carriers as previously mentioned. With the gold spring, you should be able to start shooting at a very low velocity. I'm guessing with the proper carrier, the red spring should start to cycle around 230-250, depending on your paint/bore match.

[Gabehcoud]

Alright I'll try it tomorrow. Guess it's a good thing I can buy springs still. Thanks for the help everybody I'll get back tomorrow after I mess with it.

[Gabehcoud]

Alright update.

Got it fixed I think. I don't have a chrono so I cant play with that and I don't have paint so cant be 100% sure I fixed it but I think I got it. I ended up with the .5 size carrier no shims, gold spring and plenty of oil. I tried the larger carriers starting with the 1.5 which is the largest I have and they all leaked till I got to the .5. Even that one started to leak minisculy until I put some pressure on the bolt face with my finger then it seemed to stop. Oh and I made sure to tighten the f/s screw as tightly as I could by hand. I then dry fired a few times and seemed to work fine and then I put my finger in the breach and pulled the trigger. It reset. And I did it again and about 20 times more and it reset every time no problem. I guess I just kept getting hooked up on the instructions where it says use the carrier that makes it so that when the valve is held vertical the bolt doesn't easily slide off so I didn't bother with any of the other sizes other than zero because that is the only one that "worked" according to those instructions. Now I'll just have to get some crap paint and simulate ball chop conditions to really dial it in.

Again thanks for the help.

[nak81783]

Glad to hear it's working. Do you have other springs than the red one you clipped? That's what you'll need to dial it in. I would keep one red one as is, since that typically gives good results. Buy some extras to clip if you want to tweak it for different paints and/or velocities.

[Gabehcoud]

Glad to hear it's working. Do you have other springs than the red one you clipped? That's what you'll need to dial it in. I would keep one red one as is, since that typically gives good results. Buy some extras to clip if you want to tweak it for different paints and/or velocities.

Yeah I'm going to buy another spring/s. for now I just have what it came with so also the silver one. The field that I typically play at limits fps to 260 because they also have indoor fields and there's usually a lot of kids too but I'll definitely get a new red one and see how that works out. I have a shocker rsx also that I really like and it shoots great but something about a mech being able to shoot really fast and not chop paint really gets my pickle tickled especially when a lot of the younger "tourney agg wannabe" kids don't know what gun it is.

[ideinit]

Yeah I'm going to buy another spring/s. for now I just have what it came with so also the silver one. The field that I typically play at limits fps to 260 because they also have indoor fields and there's usually a lot of kids too but I'll definitely get a new red one and see how that works out. I have a shocker rsx also that I really like and it shoots great but something about a mech being able to shoot really fast and not chop paint really gets my pickle tickled especially when a lot of the younger "tourney agg wannabe" kids don't know what gun it is.

Glad you got it fixed. A properly tuned mag will last you many years. Also be aware that it typically takes a case of paint to break-in all the o-rings. You may need to tweak a bit in the future so have extra springs on hand and oil liberally at the end of day.

[nak81783]

Yeah I'm going to buy another spring/s. for now I just have what it came with so also the silver one. The field that I typically play at limits fps to 260 because they also have indoor fields and there's usually a lot of kids too but I'll definitely get a new red one and see how that works out. I have a shocker rsx also that I really like and it shoots great but something about a mech being able to shoot really fast and not chop paint really gets my pickle tickled especially when a lot of the younger "tourney agg wannabe" kids don't know what gun it is.

I believe the long silver one is best for trimming, since, as new, it won't start to shoot until a fairly high velocity that typically exceeds allowable limits. I'd keep a gold and red untrimmed on hand, and tune with the long silver one you have.

Just remember, the easier it is on paint, the closer it is to the balance between spring force and dump chamber pressure, which means reliability goes down as other conditions change -- lubrication, temperature, etc. Basically, just don't overdue it for the paint you're shooting.