New mag owner and issues

[Gabehcoud]

New update.

So I ended up airing it up today just to put some paint through it and see what happens with some paint. Started leaking heavily down the barrel as soon as I aired it up. I have hanged nothing from post #11. So I take it apart and the bolt stays in the gun that's how loose it was. So I pulled the .5 carrier out and put the 0 carrier in added a little oil for good measure and presto. Put my finger in the chamber to simulate a half loaded ball and it reset every time no problems but seemed a little sluggish on the reset sometimes. Not a lot but still. So I added three shims just to see what happened. No leaks, and no sluggishness on the reset. I then switched to my clipped red spring which is about 1/4 inch or so longer than the gold spring because it did seem a little harsh on my finger. I then put a paintball in the feedneck with my finger in through the barrel to simulate it not feeding all the way and pulled the trigger, a lot. No chops. I even placed the seem horizontally so the the bolt would hit right on the seem, I pulled the trigger about 10 times and no chop. Dents but no chop. No this isn't some tourney paint but it's still a good sign. Hopefully this will be the last of my headaches. I guess I just got some large I.d. Orings.

[nak81783]

When it leaked heavily down the barrel, did you try manually resetting the bolt? A shot or heavy leak down the barrel when first airing up is a sign the the small o-ring furthest back when you split the valve in two is bad/dirty. This allows the air a path to the dump chamber other than through the on/off top. Therefore, the sear may not be latching the bolt when air gets behind the bolt, resulting in a shot or heavy leak down the barrel.

If the heavy leak was more than you had with the larger carriers, check out that little o-ring. Clean and oil as necessary.

[Gabehcoud]

I did push on the bolt with my finger it made no real difference but after I pulled the trigger it leaked slightly less. It wasn't more than the larger carriers had leaked but still a lot. The bolt was all the way back when first airing up. Also once the leak had lessened after firing a shot, the smallest amount of pressure on the trigger would cause it to start leaking more again. However since I changed what I did it hasn't presented any problems yet but we'll see when I do go play again probably in two weeks time.

[Laku]

New mag owner and issues

Shims only move the point where the bolt vents by 0.01" each. They won't help on sticking issues unless the bolt makes contact with something that can't move forward within those first few thousands to allow it to vent (balls do allow this).

Most likely your sticking stopped because you removed and reinstalled the valve to change the carrier. Changing to the smaller carrier is I think still the right choice if it doesn't cause sticking.

Edit. Typo

[vorell]

I recently acquired my first automag and have some questions about its behavior. It was built and purchased straight from AGD, so there's been no previous owners or modifcations.

I've noticed two things that concern me.

1. When I received the marker it didn't bounce. After about 1k rounds through it along with oiling the marker before every use (including a few drops down the ASA) it now is starting to bounce as the trigger feels like it is breaking in. It's a ULT with "stock" (I'm assuming that means stock trigger pin? AGD's site wasn't very clear on this) I thought the ULT was supposed to eliminate the bounce seen in older designs.

2. Last time I fired the marker there was an air leak through the bolt down the breech. I was able to reach into the breach and gently push backwards on the center of the bolt which would then restore the seal and stop the leak until I fired again. This sounds like the o-ring issue described in the few posts above, but seeing as this is still a new marker with proper lubrication I am surprised an o-ring would fail that quickly.

I'll investigate by disassembling the valve, cleaning it, and checking o-rings but are there any other diagnostic steps recommended?

[Gabehcoud]

That is basically my same situation that I described above. I know it's not the o-rings failing but rather the gun just needing tuning as it breaks in, but as with you, this is my first mag as well so I just don't really know what I am doing

[athomas]

You could have some bad powertube carrier orings. If these have a less than perfect surface then they require a bit more tension to seal properly. That causes you to use a carrier size that is too tight for your setup and it can cause sticking issues. Using a size 0 carrier right out of the box is pretty rare.

You won't need shims. Shims are only needed in the rare event that you have a mag rail that is out of spec such that the sear causes the bolt to sit too far back while in the ready postition. This could allow the bolt to move forward when the sear releases it, but not far enough to clear the vent hole. If this happens, any obstructions at the bolt face will cause the bolt to stop but it won't release air to be able to reset. Buy installing shims, you would push the carrier farther back so that the bolt wouldn't need to move as far to expose the vent hole. In a normal setup, the vent hole is so close to the oring sealing surface that any forward movement of the bolt will cause it to be exposed to vent air and reset.

"False leaks" are real leaks but not ones that are caused by carrier issues. We call them false leaks because they don't require changing anything that seals air. You only need to remove shims to stop the leak. These false leaks are caused when installed shims push the carrier too far back so that the bolt stem vent hole is permanently exposed or right on the edge of the sealing edge of the oring. Quite often that leak can be stopped by going to a tighter carrier size which flattens out the inner edge of the sealing oring such that it covers the vent hole. So, the leak stops but the carrier and oring are tighter than they should be and you end up with random bolt stick issues.

Have you tried a different tank? Yours might be 750, but have you actually checked the pressure with an accurate gauge? Level 10 mags act funny if the input pressure is too low.

The fact that you had issues where your mag leaked but pushing on the face of the bolt caused it to stop or reduce is an indication that the vent hole is exposed. If no shims are installed, it could be a valve or bolt spacing issue. Is your rail bushing in place?

[nak81783]

athomas,

This forum has discussed bad o-rings before. Do we know if AGD, their o-ring supplier, etc. take measures to prevent exposure to detrimental conditions, track shelf life expiration, etc.? With two new members having issues with new markers straight from AGD, out of spec or degraded o-orings seem a possibility. We know this isn't the norm for AGD-direct product.

[Gabehcoud]

I have two tanks. One I bought used from trademygun.com. They said it was 750 psi. No I haven't tested it. The other one is a new ninja shp with all the shims (1100psi?). With the SHP tank the problems are only exacerbated. With the 750 tank it's tolerable, meaning leaks less enough to wear I can actually play a game with it but yeah still leaks.

If we're talking about bad orings. 2 of my 3 oring the gun came with require the size 0 carrier to prevent leaks. I haven't yet tried the other one. But now this makes me want to bet that it's going to be the same as the other two.

[Gabehcoud]

I have two tanks. One I bought used from trademygun.com. They said it was 750 psi. No I haven't tested it. The other one is a new ninja shp with all the shims (1100psi?). With the SHP tank the problems are only exacerbated. With the 750 tank it's tolerable, meaning leaks less enough to wear I can actually play a game with it but yeah still leaks.

If we're talking about bad orings. 2 of my 3 oring the gun came with require the size 0 carrier to prevent leaks. I haven't yet tried the other one. But now this makes me want to bet that it's going to be the same as the other two.

[athomas]

athomas,

This forum has discussed bad o-rings before. Do we know if AGD, their o-ring supplier, etc. take measures to prevent exposure to detrimental conditions, track shelf life expiration, etc.? With two new members having issues with new markers straight from AGD, out of spec or degraded o-orings seem a possibility. We know this isn't the norm for AGD-direct product.

I don't know the answer to this one. Someone who has direct contact with AGD would have to chime in for that info.

Gabehcoud: If the problem is the same with both tanks, then input pressure is probably not a factor. Good to know. It eliminates one possibility. The orings do seem suspect though. I am still leaning towards that possibility unless there is a problem with the bolt stem. It has happened a few times where the bolt stem separated from the body of the bolt just a tiny bit causing all sorts of problems. Do you have a way to accurately measure the total length of the bolt from tip to stem?

[Gabehcoud]

I don't know the answer to this one. Someone who has direct contact with AGD would have to chime in for that info.

Gabehcoud: If the problem is the same with both tanks, then input pressure is probably not a factor. Good to know. It eliminates one possibility. The orings do seem suspect though. I am still leaning towards that possibility unless there is a problem with the bolt stem. It has happened a few times where the bolt stem separated from the body of the bolt just a tiny bit causing all sorts of problems. Do you have a way to accurately measure the total length of the bolt from tip to stem?

Do you mean measuring from the base of the tube inside the bolt to the end or what? If so then no not really

[Gabehcoud]

Well I contacted Tim at AGD and linked this thread and explained the issue I was having. He responded back within hours maybe even less than that. Told me to send it in and he'll fix it and make up for the issues. Gotta love great customer service.

[athomas]

Do you mean measuring from the base of the tube inside the bolt to the end or what? If so then no not really

I meant total length from the front of the bolt to the back of the stem that sticks out the rear of the bolt. Measuring that length will tell you if it is in spec. It probably is in spec, but it is a simple check if you have the tools.

[Gabehcoud]

I meant total length from the front of the bolt to the back of the stem that sticks out the rear of the bolt. Measuring that length will tell you if it is in spec. It probably is in spec, but it is a simple check if you have the tools.

Oh ok yeah I can do that just have to find my calipers