Solenoid experts here? Power needed to trip an xvalve sear

[Waffleman]

So I've seen plenty of spydermag builds which usually involve just repositioning the solenoid to trip the sear.
I have an ego frame that I'm modding a spyder board into but I want to see if there is a thinner longer solenoid that will have the speed and strength to fire the xvalve consistently.
So I guess does anyone know the detailed specs (beyond voltage) of the spyder/autococker solenoids that are typically used?
I've found a few $10 ones ide be willing to test but wanted to get some expert feedback first

[luke]

I built Sypdermags back in the day and the trick is to use the ULT on/off.
I also developed a new grip frame that is on hold until boards are available. This one uses a UTB which is now obsolete.
UTB a.JPG
MMMM look at that trigger stroke, that's in the FULL forward position. This thing is insanely fast! :)
What spesific info do you need?
I do have a new Spyder solenoid I never ended up using if you're interested, I would go 10 plus shipping on it(?) I also have a new and used Spyder Eframe if you need a donor.

[Waffleman]

I've got a unmarked solenoid from a TES and a 9v solenoid from an e2 frame. I want to be able to fit a noid in a slimmer frame (Etek), a standard spider noid is just too thick at 1".
I don't know if all solenoids will fire the same as a spyder knockoff one designed to do 15+ cycles per second. I also don't know if all solenoids will have the force to trip the sear. Although doing a ULT might be a good option for that
I was looking at a couple of noid options below. Both are thin enough to fit inside an smaller frame with minimal dremling

https://www.electronicsurplus.com/magnet-schultz-of-america-msa-0022-solenoid-dc-12vdc?_vsrefdom=adwords&gclid=Cj0KCQjwj_XpBRCCARIsAItJiuSUMvFW7L6udq-AS2_y0Db_viPMpbTRQHJjWW3V2OG2dw_Jn6MJxe0aAr4qEALw_wcB

https://www.ebay.com/itm/BTS-A-18-DC...oAAOSw6RZbtY4s

Most of these appear to be for driving electronic deadbolts, so the strength I'm not as worried about as the cycle speed. Thanks for the pointers

[luke]

Although doing a ULT might be a good option for that

I dont think it's an option.

[luke]

Just looked at your links, I would be interested in your results after testing those. :)

[AnthonyW]

I built Sypdermags back in the day and the trick is to use the ULT on/off.
I also developed a new grip frame that is on hold until boards are available. This one uses a UTB which is now obsolete.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]101060[/ATTACH]
MMMM look at that trigger stroke, that's in the FULL forward position. This thing is insanely fast! :)
What spesific info do you need?
I do have a new Spyder solenoid I never ended up using if you're interested, I would go 10 plus shipping on it(?) I also have a new and used Spyder Eframe if you need a donor.

Holy smokes this E frame ever gonna be available?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[knownothingmags]

I dont think it's an option.

ive never had a problem with markers that have a pneumatic setup or a electronic setup or a or and electropneumatic setup with my normal on /off on my x valves
am i missing something that the ULT is needed.

and unless im remebering wrong there was somthing to be said somewhere about not using a ult for these fast cycling setups. i of course could be wrong and cant find any info to back this up at the moment.

[Waffleman]

Well all the math I slept through In college is coming back. If the pull on a trigger for a standard xvalve is around 2lbs then ide need a solenoid that delivers about 10newtons of force. I got my frame yesterday so ill do some measurements and bite the bullet on a couple of test noids...at least Amazon has free returns

[luke]

Where do you plan on actuating the sear with those solenoids being so long?

On the Spydermags I use to build I cut the sear arm off and actuated the sear directly under the on/off pin, worked like a charm.

[Waffleman]

I'm still shopping now for noids and need some better measurements, some of the noids I sent if the specs on the force are correct would struggle to activate it even with the ULT. Ide love to avoid cutting the sear arm because I'm cheap, But if I have to that's what I'll do.

[luke]

I would start with the frame design in order to determine what the solenoid restraints are.

[BigEvil]

When I was experimenting on the E90s we found that the emag on/off assembly with the quad oring works better is resets the sear more reliably than the ULT. You sacrifice a little battery life, but these 9v noids are battery hogs and you should change your battery for every day of play.

[luke]

I tested the LcE90 at insanely fast speeds (tested mechanically) with the ULT and didn't have any issues, but the LCE90 uses a magnet to help reset the solenoid. That said I still recommend the RT on/off on all my pneumag builds as it does seem faster.