trigger frame that gives mags cocker feel

**Predator** · 04-21-2002, 10:13 PM

Interesting Idea. You could keep it simple and just have the basic cocker sliding trigger activate the rod on the mag trigger. That way you still get the sliding trigger and can play around with springs.

**Havoc_online** · 04-22-2002, 01:32 AM

I think you have it backwards though, don't most people(even cocker owners) like the mag trigger over the cocker trigger? Why would you want a mag with a long trigger pull? If that's what you want, get a benchmark trigger frame, lol. That's why everyone with a cocker throws on upgrades like race grips and other things, to make the trigger pull more like a mag's. I have a friend who put about 800 dollars in his 98' cocker just to try and have his trigger come close to my mag and it's still horrible. I don't know why he sticks with it, he himself says that it breaks down too much, it's slow and is'nt any more accurate than my gun, he basicly just like's moving parts.

I think cockers are used more than mags because Bud Orr brainwashed a lot of players a long time ago and they have slowly brainwashed a lot more.

**than205** · 04-22-2002, 06:48 AM

Has anyone heard of the hinge trigger? Someone in the cocker world wanted a trigger with a different feel.
It's all preference.

**Predator** · 04-22-2002, 07:52 AM

I dont think most people want the short, yet very hard pull, no return spring, and easy to short stroke mag trigger. I don't think that is everyones goal for a marker. Cocker triggers, although longer than a mag, can be alot lighter. I have an STO with a roller sear and other parts and the trigger is basically like a long electro trigger.

To lighten a mag trigger usually means you're sacrificing the reliability of your bolt, or your sear. Even after quite a bit of work with the on/off, and your spacers, its still not a light trigger. People want the feel of elctro triggers, and that is why they get uprising frames and racegun frames. For the electro rate of fire. The Cocker swing triggers, although they feel like spyders to me, are again for rof. NOT to be like a mag. I don't know how you surmised that Havoc_Online. Mag's aren't known for being the marker with the best standard swing trigger.

I'd take even a stock cocker trigger over a mag trigger, its alot less picky, and actually gives a return feel. The mag trigger is hard to pull, and gives no return feel. trigger feedback is important. Just my opinion.

Just like Than205 said, its all personal preference.

**Havoc_online** · 04-22-2002, 08:17 AM

I dont think most people want the short, yet very hard pull, no return spring, and easy to short stroke mag trigger

they are not easy to short stroke if the gun is set right I don't believe you said that. The cocker is very easy to short stroke(I know LOTS of ppl with cockers from pre 98' to 02' with race grips and all and STILL short stroke the gun)

People want the feel of elctro triggers

your right! but they get to the point of the mag trigger before they get to the point of the electro trigger.

Mag's aren't known for being the marker with the best standard swing trigger

ok, have you ever been to Texas? Jack from constant action himself who KNOWS the cocker has told me that it's hard as heck to get the cocker trigger to the mag's ease of high rof level. Every single field I've been to anywhere in Tx, 90% of cocker owners tell me they actually like the mag triggerpull better than a cocker. It's pretty much a rep around here.

I'd take even a stock cocker trigger over a mag trigger, its alot less picky, and actually gives a return feel. The mag trigger is hard to pull, and gives no return feel. trigger feedback is important

they both give return feel, are you suggesting that the sear does not push the trigger rod back to you? The stock trigger on a cocker is like what a 1/2 inch pull at best?

Sorry, not looking for a fight, but all this is true based on my personal experience with 100's of ppl and cocker's/mags but when it comes down to it, your right it's all personal preference.

**Predator** · 04-22-2002, 10:27 AM

Nothing to fight about man, just swapping ideas and thoughts back and forth. Thats what the boards are for

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they are not easy to short stroke if the gun is set right I don't believe you said that. The cocker is very easy to short stroke(I know LOTS of ppl with cockers from pre 98' to 02' with race grips and all and STILL short stroke the gun)
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Either gun can be picky. I meant for myself it is far easier to short stroke a mag. I longer sliding trigger works better for me. I'm not one of those guys who hasn't tried mags either, I've tried them all out.

The raceguns usually don't short stroke, but they are picky about timing. They have to be perfect, and the pneumatics have to be able to handle what the user sets the rof for. In most cases the pneumatics limit the rof, even on the centerflag uprising frames. Mags with hyperframes are alot nicer in that respect. My friend had a vert feed Micro hyperframed mag that was cool.

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your right! but they get to the point of the mag trigger before they get to the point of the electro trigger.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You're right about that, they usually try to get it as short as possible, especially with hinges and non slotted trigger plates. Then they get fed up and get an electro frame anyway. It is one of the steps in the evolution of the marker and the user loving to spend money on it

. I remember trying to get the non-slotted trigger plate to work with my cocker reliably . What a mess.

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ok, have you ever been to Texas? Jack from constant action himself who KNOWS the cocker has told me that it's hard as heck to get the cocker trigger to the mag's ease of high rof level. Every single field I've been to anywhere in Tx, 90% of cocker owners tell me they actually like the mag triggerpull better than a cocker. It's pretty much a rep around here.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nah, I haven't been to Texas yet, and I don't even know who Jack is. I don't pay attention to "famous" people in paintball really. I do know that, like we both have said, its personal preference. What surprises me is that if those guys like the mag trigger so much, why don't they get one? The trigger is the most important part of the marker. It's the user interface. The only mag triggers I have liked better than a cocker is the electro ones.

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they both give return feel, are you suggesting that the sear does not push the trigger rod back to you? The stock trigger on a cocker is like what a 1/2 inch pull at best? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A stock cocker trigger is about .22 of an inch (Actual travel measured with digital calipers), which is actually almost a quarter of an inch. Not the longest trigger in the world, but is no 1mm angel pull. As far as the mag rod not pushing back, stock mags never did give me enough feed back. RT's always gave feedback, but it was too hard. If you turned the pressure down to lessen it, it would actually starve out the marker. I also didn't like the run-away (sweet spot) trigger effect that you can get out of them. Again, personal preference.

I still think it would be interesting to see someone pull off a sliding trigger for a mag. trigger springs are one thing that mags lack, they are just limp triggers to me.

**FatMan** · 04-22-2002, 12:42 PM

I've seen a Mag with a spring added to the trigger (EZrunner, you readin'?). Seems to me a slider would not be hard to do. The pull length would not be determined by the trigger, but by the sear rod - which would not change. In fact, the pull would be a little shorter - since you don't have the hinge action (unless you measure trigger pull at the top of the trigger.

Adding a spring would just be preference.

As for the RT comments, I have a ReTro Mag (not sure why they'd be different) and I have the trigger set with very low reactivity but I get no shootdown effects.

I've read elsewhere the length of the on/off pin affects this - but I confess I don't understand how.

FatMan

**Havoc_online** · 04-22-2002, 01:19 PM

What surprises me is that if those guys like the mag trigger so much, why don't they get one?

I try and preach it, I really do, but most ppl are just swayed away by: 1.being able to customize it from srcatch since there's so many companies that make that parts and such. 2. the myth of low pressure guns and closed bolt guns. 3. "moving parts and pneumatics look cool". 4. more pros use cockers than mags(I believe mainly cause they are sponsered)

**Lorquas** · 04-22-2002, 01:38 PM

this isn't about what trigger is better, if you like the crisp and snappy mag pull, just stay with the current mag triggers. But i'm trying to help those (like me

) who want a light, smooth (sliding) trigger... like the cocker trigger.

After posting my last post... i realised those small springs and many rollers wouldn't be practical. I'm thinking of keeping the sear the way it is, with one exception: the bottom [of the sear] would be in a diffrent shape to acommodate one large roller (attached to the sliding trigger) and when the trigger when back and forth, the roller would move the sear.

can any of you photoshop masters draw me a pic? ( i will spare you all of another one of my drawings) also... any other ideas/comments/various input would be appreciated

**FatMan** · 04-22-2002, 02:07 PM

I think I understand what you're going for. What you would want to do is modify a Mag sear by moving the lower arm (where the sear rod attaches) back to the back part of the sear, under the on/off pin. Then you want the end of that to have a little roller that rolls on top of the trigger plate. The trigger plate slopes up, so pulling the trigger will force the back up the sear up (and the front down).

You would need a spring for the trigger return. The sear should return on its own due to pressure by the on/off.

It would take some experimentation to figure out where to put the roller on the sear and how it interfaces to the trigger plate. Probably the first cut will have a long sloppy pull, but with tuning you can probably get it to do what you want.

FatMan

**Vegeta** · 04-22-2002, 03:39 PM

I love the mags current trigger. It's crisp and not too heavy. I never shortstroke, at all, and if you do you need to take some ridalin or somehting and calm down. Springs in the frame would be nice, and I have plans on my comp for a double springed trigger, that I think would add a bit of reativity. Also I got a magnetic trigger design that would give it an emag feel... they really need to make a magnetic trig frame for regular 68's

**orangejulius** · 04-24-2002, 01:01 PM

My friend if they are in semi mode with there raceguns you should not be able to short stroke or there is something very wrong please PM or something I want to find out why the are short stroking if they are in semi mode.

**Manuel_FZR** · 04-24-2002, 04:16 PM

**JEDI** · 04-25-2002, 08:46 AM

Personally...

I like Mag triggers. They're more natural. My stock STO trigger is too sloppy. A trigger that completely slides backwards in unatural. Hinge triggers are closer to real gun triggers. Thats because they're more snappy.
I think its a matter of leverage. Its like the swing of a bat,... The leverage a full swing is greater then the straight on approach of a bunt.

trigger frame that gives mags cocker feel

trigger frame that gives mags cocker feel

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