gutting my mag?

[renegade2k]

ok, ive heard about people guttin there mags then runnin a palmer stabalizer for regulation. if i did that could i run at a low pressure? cuz that would be cool a low pressure mag. quiter, more efficient, more consistent, more accurate?

[Yama]

ummm arnt low pressure guns gas hogs?????????

[renegade2k]

i thought low pressure was more efficient on gas

[PyRo]

Low pressure guns can use more gas then higher pressure guns. The mag, actually does run at a fairley low pressure. As for it being quieter, more efficient, more consistant, and an increase in accuracy, this is not true.
If you wanted to make it low pressure adding a reg like that wouldn't do anything, you would need to increase the camber size.

[renegade2k]

what i wanted to do was to completely gut out my mag, add a regulator, then run it at low (like 200 not 450) pressure. is it possible to do and still work? if it is, what parts do i need to take outof the mags reg?

[-ownage-]

yama is correct. as far as i know, pressure is a function of volume(there are many factors, but i dont remember all of them). if you increase the volume of fluid in a tube( like your garden hose) w/o changing the diameter of the hose, the pressure rises. if you increase the diameter of the hose without changing the volume of fluid running through it, the pressure falls. by gutting your marker(i assume only the reg pin, seal, and spring), you are increasing the "diameter of the tube" so to speak. although this does lower the pressure, it requires more volume. so Yama is correct. lower pressure guns are indeed gas hogs. you may experience a slight or heavy increase in gas consumption, it is hard to tell.

Will it work? i believe it will. will it improve anything? i have yet to try it and see. there are several posts on this subject. i believe the first post was done by
m-a-s-sdriver. very interesting. im new here so i havent figured out how to make a link to that post. if you do a search on m-a-s-sdriver you should find that post.

[RobAGD]

Doing that will net you nothing in the long haul.

You will still have to run your gun at 350-450 psi to get 300fps outthe end of your barrel.

to drop the working pressure down to 200psi you would need to open your air chamber up about 2x times it current size.

You do that and you will lower your rate of fire, you will increese you gas use, you will have a poopy gun.

The SmartMag or the mag with the Amgic box only lowered the Op pressure by about 25-40 psi and you saw a massive change in the gas use.

The thing people dont get is that there is only about 200psi pr pressure actually hitting the ball. The pressure wave is controled by design. It not the Air Chamber pressure just wacking the ball at full force.

-Robert

[-ownage-]

oh i stand corrected

[renegade2k]

i thought runnin at a lower pressure increased efficiency. my bad. I unfortunately do have a smart mag and i was wondering if there is any valve exchange for that?

[2UnREal]

I don't think the pressure of the gun matters at all. I mean, the cocker can get down to 150 psi or so and it will get a ton more shots than a mag will get. Then you have the shockers and matrix's which run very low pressure and they are super gas hogs. I think it is just the design of the gun. Anyone want to add on to this?

[BlackVCG]

Renegade2k- About the only thing you can do is get a new or used Retro Valve to replace your SmartMag valve.

[2UnREal]

Just curious but if he gutted his valve and used a very consistent reg, would his gun become more consistent?

[2UnREal]

Anyone?

[Cha0tic]

2unreal- not really. the mags regulator is pretty consistant. in fact, one company (air america?) got permission from AGD to use their design....

[M-a-s-sDriver]

Rob's Laser Eyes Darting My Way...

Here are some of my observations, and some facts:
To get 295 fps,
Input pressure:Stock Valve, no mods SN# MM18803-467 psi
My ADVANCED valve, same SN# -372 psi
Micro-Mag RT valve, SN# GFX10114-425 psi
Retro Valve, SN# vv01529 -450 psi
real RT SN# RT05537 -410 psi
AKA internal LCD Angel SN# 2506 -240 psi
Phantom VSC -310 psi
I measured these with my Angel AIR tank at about 3000 PSI.
On the RT type valves, I just cranked 'em up and then dialed the pressure up till I hit 295 fps on my cheapo chrono. I used Marb paint. I used my freak barrel( I have 3 backs to match the Angel, Micro, and Mag)using the .87 insert. The Phantom barrel is stock 11".
Now, I'm not really into low pressure hype, but if the gun is more effecient, I'm all for it. The LCD is decidedly more efficient, and CONSISTANT with the LP parts. All of the stock MAG and RT valves have a significant kick-back. My Super-Duper valve has no kick at all, and is very soft on paint. No chops, and I can count on it. The LCD has slightly less kick than the RTs.
The Micro-mag has a Hyper-frame. Set to full auto, the Micro RT valve seems to be more consistant at 13 bps than my S-D valve, but climbs up and sprays, whereas the S-D valve sits nice and still. The stock valve started shooting down, but not by much. You could see it though. Currently, I have the S-D valve in the Micro body with a Hyper-frame.(soon to be Warped)
I'm sure the Phantom is the most efficient, as it gets 38 good shots out of a 12-gram. By the way, you guys would love to see the stares I get with the Angel AIR on the Phantom. he-he-he.
Rob, I have no Idea why these numbers look this way. I have done nothing to the air chamber to increase the LP resevoir, but will probably "black-box" it, if nothing else just to irritate you.( and cost me 60 clams in the process).
It's fun just to have people go "what's that there thingy what you have hangin offin' yer gun there?"
Also, a good thing about Mag's... If you don't cut something off, it's all reversable. I put everything back in to do this test (all the stock stuff).
Anyway, there it is. If someone can make sense of the differences, be my guest. Everyone knows how I feel about my mag.

SUPER-DUPER MAG:
ANS back
ANS bolt, foamie removed
Z-valve
Side-tap STAB
Micro-mag body
DYE foregrip
beveled sear (probably don't need that with Hyper-frame)
guts removed
Dyna-Flow 4500 88
Kapp stubby
If I ever figure out how to post pics, (AOL) I will take some and get 'em up so you guys know I am not full of um, it.