Efficiency with LX?

[FlipFlops]

Been quite awhile since I've posted...but the LX bolt has aroused my interest in 'mags once again.

What kind of shot counts are people getting with a properly set up LX bolt E-Mag? Assume good paint/barrel match, and any of the two stage barrels that are popular these days (Ultralites, JT 2 piece, etc).

I play back (10 man, so people don't get any strange ideas about the paint amounts), so without going to a rediculously huge 114/4500, I need to be getting 13 pods and a hopper off an 88/4500. Figure 140 balls per pod, and another 180 in the hopper, so that's exactly 2000 balls.

Is it possible?

[than205]

I'd love to see the gun that can do that. No offense meant, I'm just curious what would do that.
I think you would get around 1300. I may be wrong.

[FlipFlops]

Well, my Matrix with bolt kit and a few little tricks I've picked up from the MatrixCenter techs (who are on my team), have given me 11 pods on an 88/4500.

An Excal will get over 1900 shots on a 68/4500.

My last Angel got 15 pods and a hopper on an 88/4500.

So it's easily possible, but I guess mags just aren't efficient?

[Havoc_online]

it's not a question of mags being efficient, they actually use a smaller portion of air when cycling(about 60psi on the ball, the rest is residual pressure that allows the gun to rechage so fast). The thing is that once the tank drops too far below 800psi, the gun complians.

other guns like angels and cockers(depending on thier settings) have lower inputs(so they work longer as the tank drops) but use a much higher percentage of air on the ball(about 90psi) so air is used quicker.

To answer your question, the level 10 mod drops your air efficiency by about 10-15%. Last time I checked(before level 10) I was able to get about 10 pods on my 68/4500 easy.

with a 88/4500 on a level 10 RT, you'd probably be looking at around 13-15 pods

[than205]

So there you go. I'm wrong. LOL

[a_malfunction]

I havent really noticed any loss of efficiency. I dont shoot that much in a game, 200-500 or so rounds (It all depends on how long I stay in the game . And I dont seem to need to refill my tank any more than I used to.

[BlackVCG]

Welcome back FlipFlops.

If you dump the two piece barrel (horribly inefficient) and use something like the stock E-Mag/RT barrel, a Lapco or other barrel with minimal porting, you can gain up to 400 shots more out of an 88/45 system. LX efficiency is slightly less when you're using the longest spring, but AGD is working on tuning the PT tip and spring for maximum efficiency. Right now LX is still a bit in the beta stage. The spring we're using (gray ones) are out of the military gun and they just so happened to work well enough with LX. Once there's some R&D put into making main springs for optimal efficiency and no chops/breaks with typical tournament paint along with different PT tip designs, we'll see LX at its peak in terms of performance.

For right now, to get the most efficiency possible with LX, use the middle spring if your paint isn't super brittle, use the least ported barrel you can find that's at least 8.5" and of course a good paint to barrel match.

[FlipFlops]

10 pods on a 68/4500 is definitely very good.

BlackVCG, I realize that two piece barrels are not the most efficient, but I find them necessary as a back player because of two reasons: it helps me aim, and it lets me push my bunker around. Certain two piece barrels do have less porting, or porting that starts further down the tip (like the JT, for example), and even with the increase in bore size after 5 inches, they're more efficient than a boomstick.

I don't think anyone makes a 16" smooth bore, and a custom barrel from Palmer or BOA is out of the question because of weight concerns.

Also, does anyone know if they allow hybrid mode on emags in the NPPL? I mean, yes, hybrid is legal, but how far can you go with the reactiveness?

[BlackVCG]

Yes it's legal in NPPL and it all depends on the ref(s) that chrono's in the gun as to whether you can use it that day. As long as it isn't at the point that you can drag your finger up and down the trigger and get 8 shot bursts out of it because it's so reactive, I don't think they'll have a problem with it.

I see your point on the two-piece barrels. I like the JJ barrels when it comes to a two-piece.

[headcase]

Custom Products makes 16" one piece barrels.

As far as two piece kits go, I'd look at the new Powerlyte set. The inserts are 7" longs, so they should allow for better shot counts over other two pieces with 4" control bores. Only thing is I don't remember if they offer a 16" barrel yet.

[Tunaman]

Not me

I really have not noticed any less efficency with my Emag and level 10. I shoot an old school J+J Brass 10" when i want the best.
Glad to see you back Flip Flops!

[drx975]

This is going to be hard for me to calculate but here goes....

I got 750 max shots out of my 47ci/3k tank without level10.
Now I get max 650 shots out of my tank with level10.

47+21 = 68. 21 is 41% of 47. So 41% of 650 = 266.5. 650 + 266.5 = 916.5 rounded up to 917. A 68/4.5k tank is 1/3 more shots. So 917/3 = 305.5, 917 + 305 = 1222. 1222 shots out of a 68/4.5k tank. Ok now we need the 88/4.5k tank right, so, 20 of 68 is 29%. 1222 x 29% = 354.38, 1222 + 354.38 = 1576.38. You can expect 1576 shots out of a 88/4.5k tank. Keep in mind this is with the most efficient setup. You can probably expect more than 1576 though because today I was using old paintballs that probably swelled SLIGHTLY, but enough to throw off some readings. So maybe 1700 shots, with the most efficient setup.

Anyway, IMO 2000 balls a game is absolutely rediculous. Thats like $45 burned in 10 minutes. And if its free for you, then man at least work on your aim or something. And it takes 2 and a half minutes to fire 2000 balls at 15bps, constant fire, not including reloading. I would imagine it takes about 4 minutes including reloading.

We really need a tourney cap on paint allowed to each 5 and 10 man game....

EDIT: the gun stops firing at 200psi (3k tank)

[Tunaman]

I dont see any way for you to get your tank down to 200 and still fire the Mag. You have to check that gauge! Cant be right!

[FlipFlops]

drx975, in 10 man NPPL back players usually carry between 9 and 15 pods. Some, like SK off Dynasty, have carried up to 17 pods. If you ever get a chance to watch him, he doesn't blaze away, but has a rhythm that he never varies from, and he NEVER stops shooting, unless he has to reload. A constant stream around 3 balls per second. If you do the math that's 2700 balls a game, or 19 pods, but remember he has to reload, hence 17 pods.

In a full 15 minute game it is very easy to shoot 13 pods. That's less than one pod per minute! A back player's job is to sit there and shoot, and shoot, and shoot, in addition to being the communications backbone of the team. The more paint a back player shoots the more he helps his team. In tournament ball it's all about controlling the fire lanes, and the only way to do that is by shooting more paint.

Rich Telford, SC Ironmen - 15 to 18 pods
Ryan Hart, Trauma - 15 pods

And since Trauma teaches us, we do what they say (which is carry more, shoot more).

[drx975]

Ok, I guess that would make sense. I still think that people are shooting too much during tourney games. Electrics are making ROF much higher which is OK, but we cant just let people rip off rounds endlessly. When we had pumps only the skill requirement was much higher (marksmanship, stealth, etc) in order to win. Now all you need to do is move to a good spot and unload - where is the skill in that? Or, if your head to head in a snapshooting fight, you just have to let off a hundred rounds at the guy and wait for one to hit him, you dont need to aim carefully! But, if we limit paint to X amount where X is less than usual amount by a considerable number, then we will have teams developing a better plans or "plays" and the game will become more strategic, but with very fast firing guns. This way, teams will have the SAME amount of paint each game, they will have to be careful to not drop the paint, shoot wisely, and develop better marksmanship. Does anyone agree with this? I feel like I'm alone here.