e-mag crisis

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  • TippmannMan
    Inactive
    • Oct 2002
    • 378

    #1

    e-mag crisis

    today was the first day i played an actual game with my e-mag. first most i see extreme potential since even in its worst conditions it outperformed my model 98 substantially. however my e-mag had no consistency what so ever and even with the level 10 installed it was chopping like a blender (now i see why people nicknamed us mag owners accordingly). below i will explain for anybody willing or able to help.

    most important to note before reading is that it was probably 20 degrees outside. so im not giving up all hope yet. initially the e-mag fired very well. i was able to hit targets (at a shooting range) repeatedly with delicious speed. more than satisfied i hit the fields. as soon as the whistle blew i shot once to reassure myself only to encounter a ball break. if you have read one of my previous posts you will know that i cannot take out my barrel. therefore this is a huge problem. i start shooting anyway hoping i could just blast out the debris but by now the balls were curving every which way. and to make things worse my valve started hissing and leaking rapidly. i turned off the air flow into the marker but it was still leaking. i shot until the e-mag wouldnt fire and it was still leaking. by the time i called myself out and ran to the air station i lost about a good 3000 psi of air. ok so for some reason the air stops leaking when it got down to around 1000 psi left in the tank. i went to rechronograph and i was shooting great. 285. 286. 284. targets once again getting nailed everytime. so i go back to play again. the going is good until i get another ball break (oh i forgot to tell you that i took apart the marker and ran a pull thru squeegee after i ran back to the air station so the barrel was clean). same problems but this time i just run a battle swab into the barrel. it shoots decently but after another quick succession of shots there goes another break. today i mustve chopped... around 30 times in 4 10 minute games. so i just dealt with it. tagging only two people the entire day but only because they were idiots and came within 30 feet of our side.

    so right now im chopping like a mad man. mad man meaning about every 10 shots. my velocity also fluctuates dangerously. going down to 112 to even 540. my e-mag in hybrid and e-mode shoots responsively. i have no definite idea of what my output psi is set to since my gauge is off by about 200 though im guessing its outputting at about 900. when firing in manual the trigger pull must be 10 pounds and it is not reactive at all. i experience double ball loading. balls exploding in the muzzle break of the e-mag barrel frequently. my valve leaks often and can only be silenced by holding down the trigger. but other than that im still impressed since i am used to having markers that just dont work. i know it has potential for greatness since i have seen it work like a dream. but i can never get it to stay working. im hoping its the cold but if all mag owners experienced this it wouldnt seem to be worth while to play in the winter. should i be sending this to AGD or can anybody help me here. thanks in advance and there will be plenty of additional thanks if you can help.
  • Smokee_2_7
    Registered User
    • Nov 2000
    • 823

    #2
    I know its been a while since you posted this, but are you still having problems? What was the setup on the level 10? I missed you 'other' post- - -why will your barrel not come off? If you can give me some updated information, i'd be glad to try to help.


    Carl

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    • TippmannMan
      Inactive
      • Oct 2002
      • 378

      #3
      haha thats funny... the day i return after a long haitus from AO i receive a reply for this well for the barrel i stupidly fitted the stock e-mag barrel with 4 o-rings since i was getting major barrel vibration (to the point where it the level 10 bolt would stop on the barrel because it was so unaligned). the good news is the barrel is straight as an arrow. the bad news of course is that to squeegee (the only way to clean ) i need to remove the valve which of course sets me back in a game. at first i thought it wouldnt be a problem because of the level 10. but the harsh reality of barrel breaks came to me frequently during play. as i stated before it was really cold outside and im pretty sure it was responsible for many of following problems i experienced.

      barrel breaks (no chops just breaks)
      inconsistent velocity in all modes (manual/hybrid/electric)
      extremely poor air efficiency even for the level 10
      leaking noises (seems to originate from the valve)
      response trigger in all modes (manual/hybrid/electric)
      extremely heavy trigger in manual (this is not subjective i am 101% confident this is unusual)

      the level 10 bolt was fine tuned by RobAGD and the majority of the opinion that day was the cold weather affecting the spacers/orings and what not. thanks for actually replying and thanks in advance for any of your help.

      Comment

      • Smokee_2_7
        Registered User
        • Nov 2000
        • 823

        #4
        ok, i have a few ideas, based off some similar experiences.

        First off, how good (or bad) was your paint to barrel match?

        Ive found that on days where im stuck shooting smaller paint through a larger barrel, im always having problems with barrel breaks. Its usually double feeding- - - the plastic nubbins work, but if the ball is small enough its very easy to get a second one in the barrel. This combined with colder weather= the balls breaking instead of both of them shooting out.
        When I was able to get a good paint/barrel match, all the doublefeeds and barrel breaks stopped.


        Inconsistent velocity

        Ok, even though Rob tuned lvl 10 for you, it still may need tweaking from time to time. Did you oil the gun before you played? That definitly helps ensure that the carrier o-ring is sliding freely. Additionally, Inconsistent velocity may be due too the 0-ring being too tight. Remember, you need to be using the LARGEST carrier in your gun that dosent leak. If you wind up with a little leak, try turning the thumb screw slightly in both directons- - you should hear a change in the leaks pitch. Quite often you may be able to find a magical spot where the leak goes away. Sticky carrier o-ring would account for the paint breakage and velocity ranging from 540 to 120.

        Additionally, Paint to barrel match plays a bigger role in velocity than I used to think. On days where im stuck shooting relativly crappy paint (dimples, flat spots, nice vareity of sizes all in the same bag) ive had velocity range from 268 to 295 (where my target was 290). However, a week later when i was playing with some of the freshest, most consistent paint (*NO changes made to the gun at all) I popped it on the chrono and shot 277, 277, 277 (field limit there was 280).

        the extremely poor air efficency may be related to lvl 10 issues also. Can you tell me what configuration you have in there? what spring, carrier, and #of shims?

        Leaking noises from the valve.

        When you say this i picture a small leak coming from roughly the middle of the gun- - -kinda right over the trigger area. If this is what you're talking about, go in there, remove you on/off assembly, and check the on/off bottom o-ring. thats the one thats inside the brass peice (you'll have to unscrew it.) VERY probable that this is the problem. replace and oil and get back to me on it.

        While you are in your on/off, make sure that you have a BLACK 'quad o-ring' in the TOP of the on off area. Normal retroalves and x-valves have 2 orings, the emags are special. Double check that. Additionally, if you have a parts kit, i'd go ahead and rebuild the entire on/off area.

        why?

        Because the HEAVY trigger is probably caused by those o-rings in the on/off assembly sticking on you. when you pull the trigger, the back of the sear assembly has to push the on/off pin through those orings. If they are slightly too tight, not properly oiled, or damaged it wont want to slide good= heavey trigger.


        Finally, im not sure what you mean by 'response trigger in all modes' Do you mean that the guns trigger tends to bounce back rather eaisly? or do you mean that you have a tippman-like full auto thing going on?


        oh, one more thing. I would suggest changing your reg. seat o-ring also. this may also be contributing to the inconsistent velocities. As far as re-build parts go, use ONLY AGD stuff. the generic 'first aid kits' traditionally have crappy o-rings in them. Usually they dont seat right, and quite often leak, or are too tight.



        Ok, when you get a chance, run through all that stuff and let me know what you've got going on. We can go ahead from there.


        Carl


        (edit) oh yeah, what kind of barrel do you have? You shouldnt have to put 4 orings on it. Not being able to take the barrel off is a bad thing, and i would propose that having that thing wedged in there so tight could be causing some of the problems, too.
        Last edited by Smokee_2_7; 02-03-2003, 11:05 PM.

        Comment

        • TippmannMan
          Inactive
          • Oct 2002
          • 378

          #5
          wow im being overwhelmed with so much useful info thanks for all the help. a lot of your advice seemed very legitimate but ill have to try it tomorrow since it is about time for me to turn in for the night. however before i go i may be able to ask a few questions

          i have used nothing but fresh diablo blaze and midnight with the e-mag. though what you are describing sounds dead on as to what i am experiencing. could you tell me what kind you paint you found to work best? i am using the stock e-mag barrel since its stuck on there

          what i meant by the response trigger in all modes is that the trigger was very reactive (not quite cranked up model 98 reactive) in manual/electric/hybrid. maybe i just never understood correctly but i thought the reactive trigger was only a feature of manual and hybrid mode.

          as for the rest im not able to answer them yet but thanks again it all sounds very promising.

          Comment

          • athomas
            Of course it works-its AGD
            • Jan 2002
            • 8039

            #6
            Even if the carrier o-ring sticks, the velocity will never spike much above the adjusted velocity unless the regulator leaks higher pressure into the front chamber. If you are having drop-off problems then check your carrier o-ring. If you are having large spikes then clean your regulator and check the associated o-rings. The dirty reg or leaking o-ring which causes velocity spikes also results in the trigger being a lot heavier as well, since the chamber pressure is related to the trigger pull.

            If you are having barrel wobble problems, you should take off the barrel o-rings and put a couple of wraps of tape in the o-ring grooves. Then put a single o-ring back in each groove. The tape will make the o-ring tighter much like having two o-rings except they won't bind. You'll be able to remove your barrel for easy cleaning.

            The spikes in velocity, even with a level 10 may have contributed to the barrel breaks, especially if the weather was inclement.

            The leaks are probably the carrier since you can silence them by holding the trigger. Two things can cause that. One is that the carrier o-ring needs to be one size tighter. The other is that there are too many shims. Maybe you are too close to the edge of performance. Remove a couple of shims and use one size tighter carrier. Use lots of oil until the o-ring get broken in properly.
            Except for the Automag in front, its usually the man behind the equipment that counts.

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